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May 30 2012 02:36pm
Quote (PerfectLuck @ May 30 2012 03:34pm)
Yeah I figured, so in the end just go with highest overall DPS at least cost. Offhands cost a crapton, while I just got a high 900s 2h Sword with 101 Int for 10k.

Also, when a weapon has "+% Damage" on it, is that modified with all the other damage increases as well or only applied once to the weapon?


Seems to apply only to weapon damage, but I haven't done much testing or done too much reading. Prices seem to reflect that it's not doing anything extra (unlike the bonus charges you see when an item gets int/vit/life on hit/sockets)
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May 30 2012 03:47pm
does it mean:
900dps weapon with 1.2 IAS makes the Same dmg than 900dps weapon with 1,65 IAS?
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May 30 2012 03:48pm
Quote (Octogenarian @ May 30 2012 04:47pm)
does it mean:
900dps weapon with 1.2 IAS makes the Same dmg than 900dps weapon with 1,65 IAS?


Yes, because base damage will be higher on the 1.2 weapon. Add an offhand, damage on other equipment, and you'll see a difference
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May 30 2012 03:52pm
Quote (qgan0914 @ May 30 2012 09:48pm)
Yes, because base damage will be higher on the 1.2 weapon.  Add an offhand, damage on other equipment, and you'll see a difference


thx

/edit

what does it mean when i Attack with shock Impulse?

high IAS or low IAS? when both has Same dmg. does it matter for the dmg of each Attack?

This post was edited by Octogenarian on May 30 2012 03:54pm
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May 30 2012 04:13pm
Quote (PerfectLuck @ May 30 2012 03:08pm)
" it changes nothing. It only changes the fact" ahahahaha
semantics, whatever. I'll ignore that.


Semantics are important, but that's not really the issue here.


Quote
Anyways, you're right in that aspect. But you're assuming that people can reach the 2.0 "benchmark" without much effort. I'm suggesting that people not disregard IAS for damage. They should primarily hit that benchmark, or something close to where they can kite well enough. Personally, with 12% mspd and 1.74 attack speed, I do fine with kiting.


Reaching 2.0 (or 1.8, 1.9) is easy and cheap. Generally, good gloves and rings for Wizards come with speed anyway. If you take a 1.4 weapon, you only need 42% additional attack speed to reach 2.0--although you could easily settle for only 30 from both rings and still reach 1.82 (which is close enough). All I said was not to look for weapons that have an "increased attack speed" mod, because it's a waste. Unless, of course, it's a really expensive rare weapon. If you're not rolling in tens of millions of gold or fg, you really should avoid weapon ias and go with the much more effective character ias that you get from armor pieces--because there are much more important mods out there for kiters. You can't dispute this. If you do, you're not seeing the picture.

Quote
Regarding Blizzard/Signature spell. Firstly, it's mainly a choice between higher mobility or higher Blizzard/Signature spell per hit damage. I prefer mobility, since I could care less about that damage (it's gonna be high enough already, no need to gimp DPS to make it higher)


Again, you're not focusing. Where did I say (after having learned that DPS does impact Hydra) that DPS is a bad thing? You don't need to gimp DPS to have heavier hitting spells a single decimal point. Please, if you would be so kind, read my comments again. Your DPS will be just as high with a high averaged damage weapon as with a fast one if you choose the weapon carefully. You don't need to choose the weapon with lower dps just because it has higher damage--you only need to choose the weapon that has the same DPS, but hits harder. Ergo, you don't lose any DPS, but gain damage per hit--and you're still more than fast enough a caster with just a pair of rings. If you need further explanation, please tell me so. I don't know how else to put this.

Quote
Secondly, you're assuming that adding more damage would be the same cost as adding more attack speed. But it should be noted that if you focus damage, there is a point where +100 Damage (sounds pretty damn costly) will not be as effective as +10% attack speed (extremely cheap, under 10k i guarantee it), despite them being equal increases in DPS. Realistically, increasing solely your Damage per Hit will make hydra suffer/aspd suffer. On the flipside, increasing only Attack Speed will make your damage with casted spells suffer, and hydra will suffer again. Balance is key.


Balance is key. I have said something of that sort, just not directly. Remember when I said that you need to make up for the lower weapon speed with armor pieces? See? Balance. It's like you don't even read my responses. You don't lose any DPS, therefore you don't lose Hydra damage. It just seems as if you're not picking your gear right if you don't realize how easy it is to add to your DPS with damage, not with ias.



Quote
I agree, attack speed is definitely not the only way to improve DPS. I never said it was. Attack speed and damage go hand in hand. More of one makes increasing the other better. But when itemizing, don't limit yourself from IAS.

I believe we can come to the conclusion that weaponization should be as follows:

1. Get as much IAS and Movespeed until you are comfortable using your setup to kite. It's usually pretty cheap to get a quick 50% IAS from Rings/Amulet/Glove (15, 15, 15, 13 -ish), so just get that then try out different crappy weapons (they maintain their dps) until you find an attack speed and weapon that you are comfortable with.
2. From there on, just get as much DPS as you can, however you can or want. Naturally, you will probably get a lot of pure damage, since IAS is already hard to come by at this point. So it should work out nicely however you build it and as long as you spend your money wisely
.


Ah, bolded for agreement. It would be impossible to disagree with that. Every player has a different play style and therefore not every setup suits every player--no matter how effective it seems on paper.



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May 30 2012 04:16pm
Quote (Perverse @ May 30 2012 05:13pm)
Again, you're not focusing. Where did I say (after having learned that DPS does impact Hydra) that DPS is a bad thing? You don't need to gimp DPS to have heavier hitting spells a single decimal point. Please, if you would be so kind, read my comments again. Your DPS will be just as high with a high averaged damage weapon as with a fast one if you choose the weapon carefully. You don't need to choose the weapon with lower dps just because it has higher damage--you only need to choose the weapon that has the same DPS, but hits harder. Ergo, you don't lose any DPS, but gain damage per hit--and you're still more than fast enough a caster with just a pair of rings. If you need further explanation, please tell me so. I don't know how else to put this.


You have a machine gun and one bullet. Which is better, upgrading the bullet for more damage or upgrading the firing rate of the machine gun?
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May 30 2012 04:18pm
Quote (qgan0914 @ May 30 2012 05:16pm)
You have a machine gun and one bullet.  Which is better, upgrading the bullet for more damage or upgrading the firing rate of the machine gun?


That's gold, man. :hail:
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May 30 2012 04:22pm
Quote (Perverse @ May 30 2012 03:13pm)
Semantics are important, but that's not really the issue here.




Reaching 2.0 (or 1.8, 1.9) is easy and cheap. Generally, good gloves and rings for Wizards come with speed anyway. If you take a 1.4 weapon, you only need 42% additional attack speed to reach 2.0--although you could easily settle for only 30 from both rings and still reach 1.82 (which is close enough). All I said was not to look for weapons that have an "increased attack speed" mod, because it's a waste. Unless, of course, it's a really expensive rare weapon. If you're not rolling in tens of millions of gold or fg, you really should avoid weapon ias and go with the much more effective character ias that you get from armor pieces--because there are much more important mods out there for kiters. You can't dispute this. If you do, you're not seeing the picture.



Again, you're not focusing. Where did I say (after having learned that DPS does impact Hydra) that DPS is a bad thing? You don't need to gimp DPS to have heavier hitting spells a single decimal point. Please, if you would be so kind, read my comments again. Your DPS will be just as high with a high averaged damage weapon as with a fast one if you choose the weapon carefully. You don't need to choose the weapon with lower dps just because it has higher damage--you only need to choose the weapon that has the same DPS, but hits harder. Ergo, you don't lose any DPS, but gain damage per hit--and you're still more than fast enough a caster with just a pair of rings. If you need further explanation, please tell me so. I don't know how else to put this.



Balance is key. I have said something of that sort, just not directly. Remember when I said that you need to make up for the lower weapon speed with armor pieces? See? Balance. It's like you don't even read my responses. You don't lose any DPS, therefore you don't lose Hydra damage. It just seems as if you're not picking your gear right if you don't realize how easy it is to add to your DPS with damage, not with ias.





Ah, bolded for agreement. It would be impossible to disagree with that. Every player has a different play style and therefore not every setup suits every player--no matter how effective it seems on paper.



Glad we agree now.

This post was edited by PerfectLuck on May 30 2012 04:22pm
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May 30 2012 04:35pm
Quote (PerfectLuck @ May 30 2012 05:22pm)
Glad we agree now.


Semi-agree, more like; but close enough to bury the hatchet.
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May 30 2012 04:37pm
Quote (qgan0914 @ May 30 2012 03:16pm)
You have a machine gun and one bullet.  Which is better, upgrading the bullet for more damage or upgrading the firing rate of the machine gun?


You have a CHOICE between
A gun with 2 bullets that shoots a bullet a second.
or
A gun with 1 bullet that hits twice as hard but charges for 2 seconds.


I'm not debating which is a better investment. The way D3 works is that damage mainly comes from the weapon while IAS can be achieved all around. So the reason one might choose a harder hitting weapon is because they've already got the IAS covered elsewhere. Otherwise, IAS in the Weapon could be a better choice. Sometimes people like more Int in their rings/ammys rather than IAS.

In the end, IAS and Damage has to be achieved, and you can achieve it however you want. Whether it be massive INT rings/ammys and IAS weapon, or INT weapons with IAS rings/ammys. [edit] or a combo of both, as a friend just showed me.

This post was edited by PerfectLuck on May 30 2012 04:44pm
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