Quote (WereWolf12345 @ Apr 13 2013 12:42pm)

1k is pushing it. Haunt heals for 24 life every second. We don't have to ban it, we can just include it in the rep limit of 50. As for the hex healing rune, the number it says on your screen is a lie. You'd have to stay around it for the entire time and 294 life over a period of 12 seconds of you standing still is outrageously low.

In a real duel, the shaman is always a screen behind / stuck on a wall / stands around and do nothing the second you start running away from it. Sometimes it doesn't even use hex at all.

It would make sense to ban Spirit Vessel in a way, but I highly doubt it would change anything. When you go against a WD, if it's a bad match up for you, you shouldn't be able to bring his life lower than 50%. Having said that, vessel is VERY rarely popped. The reason why WD seems to be the dominant race is because of it's overall kit AT LEVEL 30. The game wasn't balanced around the level we decided to duel at, so of course some classes will benefit more than others. You could try to turn the class down for balance reasons but ultimately, you're not changing anything. Some things do get banned when they warp the format i na MAJOR way and break the entire interactions, but the heal runes / spirit vessel / number of turrets on screen are nowhere near to that format breaking stage.

Say we follow exactly what you say, and ban everything that's decent about a WD, they eventually become just that one class that no ones plays, then you'll see a shift of players going to wards barbs or monks. Then you'll start saying "well... barbs op, we'll start banning some of their stuff now" and so on and so on. Next thing you know, the banlist is an entire screen long and it just confuses people that want to start LLD'ing. You said it yourself; it's a gearcheck format. Skill is almost always outclassed by how well your character is geared. Having said that, OF COURSE iron's barb is going to rape everything. Give it time, give people the chance to build a monk and dh thats actually insane and I can garantee you you'll see change. For now going left and right asking to nerf specific minor things isn't doing anybody any good.

Quote (tcpgeest @ Apr 13 2013 12:52pm)

Yeah I can see the dilemma. But I don't wanna ban anything, just for the hell of it. I just want wd's to be played. On eu no one wants to play cuz they scared to loose. Or they dont wanna use it themselves cuz then they feel like a dick. Something just has to be done. But I guess u can make an argument against banning/restricting any skill. In the end it might not matter or matter too much. I know it's hard to balance at 30 but we still gotta try. We can test it all out, if a chance seems to radical we can always change it back and simply keep it under consideration. Then we only change something after its been thoroughly tested. As for now for wd's. I feel that even if everyone was ironside's level of gear they'd still win most matchups. It is like you said their entire kit of gear contributes to them being the best class overall. Even little things like haunt and corpse spiders. I honestly wouldn't know the best way to balance them.

I do think it might be an idea to include haunt's regen into the cap. Also the 294 life can proc multiple times. The shaman does get stuck alot that is true. But ive experienced a couple duels where the wd managed to get 3 heal procs off the shaman. But I dunno maybe it really doesnt matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

Quote (Kommandant @ Apr 13 2013 01:59pm)

On the banning of spirit vessel note one of our other Passives is already banned and we will soon run out of decent Passives to use. On paper the healing from hex looks good but I don't notice a difference with or without the rune.

6:30 pm central time I want to duel you guys with my insanely geared WD. because I also have the skills to back it up. And I'll show you that vs anyone geared well and decent skills if you ban these things, I will start losing a lot.

You may say "well that's what we are looking for"

I see that as bullshit since I'm the best geared WD and I'm very skilled with it as Ironside can vouch
I deserve to win a lot of my duels. If I out skill AND out gear you. I'm not OP.

Quote (Kommandant @ Apr 13 2013 12:59pm)

On the banning of spirit vessel note one of our other Passives is already banned and we will soon run out of decent Passives to use. On paper the healing from hex looks good but I don't notice a difference with or without the rune.

6:30 pm central time I want to duel you guys with my insanely geared WD. because I also have the skills to back it up. And I'll show you that vs anyone geared well and decent skills if you ban these things, I will start losing a lot.

You may say "well that's what we are looking for"

I see that as bullshit since I'm the best geared WD and I'm very skilled with it as Ironside can vouch
I deserve to win a lot of my duels. If I out skill AND out gear you. I'm not OP.

Quote (tcpgeest @ Apr 13 2013 01:11pm)

is there a wd passive banned? which one

Quote (WereWolf12345 @ Apr 13 2013 08:42am)

1k is pushing it. Haunt heals for 24 life every second. We don't have to ban it, we can just include it in the rep limit of 50. As for the hex healing rune, the number it says on your screen is a lie. You'd have to stay around it for the entire time and 294 life over a period of 12 seconds of you standing still is outrageously low.

In a real duel, the shaman is always a screen behind / stuck on a wall / stands around and do nothing the second you start running away from it. Sometimes it doesn't even use hex at all.

It would make sense to ban Spirit Vessel in a way, but I highly doubt it would change anything. When you go against a WD, if it's a bad match up for you, you shouldn't be able to bring his life lower than 50%. Having said that, vessel is VERY rarely popped. The reason why WD seems to be the dominant race is because of it's overall kit AT LEVEL 30. The game wasn't balanced around the level we decided to duel at, so of course some classes will benefit more than others. You could try to turn the class down for balance reasons but ultimately, you're not changing anything. Some things do get banned when they warp the format i na MAJOR way and break the entire interactions, but the heal runes / spirit vessel / number of turrets on screen are nowhere near to that format breaking stage.

Say we follow exactly what you say, and ban everything that's decent about a WD, they eventually become just that one class that no ones plays, then you'll see a shift of players going to wards barbs or monks. Then you'll start saying "well... barbs op, we'll start banning some of their stuff now" and so on and so on. Next thing you know, the banlist is an entire screen long and it just confuses people that want to start LLD'ing. You said it yourself; it's a gearcheck format. Skill is almost always outclassed by how well your character is geared. Having said that, OF COURSE iron's barb is going to rape everything. Give it time, give people the chance to build a monk and dh thats actually insane and I can garantee you you'll see change. For now going left and right asking to nerf specific minor things isn't doing anybody any good.