Quote (msbrz @ 4 Jan 2013 20:16)

the problem with mace / fast dagger is that you have to watch which hand swings for sprint ticks. with mace / ef both hands swing at same speed / same tics.

Quote (eschaton @ Jan 4 2013 07:13am)

just a few comments.

1. with 33-35 ias u wont get 2.5aps unless in WOTB. i have 44ias and reach 2.27aps w/o WOTB atm.

2. as for shoulders, good vile wards are very expensive. primary stats that you are looking for are allres, str and vit. extra armor and life regen are a nice bonus but you can do well without them. on europe you can find 220str/150+vit 60@ ones starting at 20-25mil.

3. offhand. dps on EF is the last thing you are looking for. u want very high CD and sock, b/c it will boost your nado damage from mainhand (and as has been tested about 70% of your damage comes from nados).
u can get 750ish dps intelligence ones with 90CD+ and sock for 20-30mil+. strength EF is very expensive, usually 2-3 times more expensive than intelligence ones.

everything else you said is quite correct and i also think that IK belt build is more solid one (if you can afford good IK belt and good gloves) than witching hour one i am currently using.

Quote (eschaton @ Jan 4 2013 05:13am)

just a few comments.

1. with 33-35 ias u wont get 2.5aps unless in WOTB. i have 44ias and reach 2.27aps w/o WOTB atm.

2. as for shoulders, good vile wards are very expensive. primary stats that you are looking for are allres, str and vit. extra armor and life regen are a nice bonus but you can do well without them. on europe you can find 220str/150+vit 60@ ones starting at 20-25mil.

3. offhand. dps on EF is the last thing you are looking for. u want very high CD and sock, b/c it will boost your nado damage from mainhand (and as has been tested about 70% of your damage comes from nados).
u can get 750ish dps intelligence ones with 90CD+ and sock for 20-30mil+. strength EF is very expensive, usually 2-3 times more expensive than intelligence ones.

everything else you said is quite correct and i also think that IK belt build is more solid one (if you can afford good IK belt and good gloves) than witching hour one i am currently using.

Quote (amok @ Jan 4 2013 08:25am)

Actually, as cool as it is with an echoing fury in offhand for the +aps bonus, i think you can get a much cheaper build with a nice statstick dagger in offhand. I will list the items on my char together with their prices and will give you my true dps (tDPS) score from d3rawr.com.

- First of all, when you have a 1.20 mace in mainhand and a 1.50 dagger in offhand, all the attack speed you need to stack for a nice breakpoint is 24 (with enchantress buff) or 27. That means 3 items with 8-9as each. This means you just need a lacunis, inna pants and a witching hour. This is cheap except for the witching hour, but because you don't need any other attack speed items, in total you will spend much less.
- You can use the ik helm, ik gloves together with the almost mandatory ik chest to get a whopping %14-16 melee damage reduction. This is a stat usually undervalued by players.
- Since you don't need AS on gloves, helm, amulet or rings, you can maximize the cc on these items for much cheaper. 10cc gloves, 6cc helm, 10cc amulet, 6cc rings are not expensive together with one or two of some allres, average damage, vit, etc.
- Since you choose not to use an echoing fury in offhand, you can get a statstick dagger for very low prices. A dagger with 250str, 100vit, 60crit, ls and socket is perfect and cheap.
- The thing about not using EF in offhand is that you will have a relatively low on screen dps (%10-15 lower), but don't worry. Your true dps and effective health will be around %20-30 higher with a nice statstick.
- The breakpoints you reach with this setup is 2.00/2.50 for MH/OH in berserk mode.

Here are my items, most of them are selffound so i listed their approximate values:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/AM0K-2754/hero/993510

- IK Helm: 25m (selffound)
- Vile Ward: 45m (selffound)
- IK Chest: 150m (selffond)
- Witching Hour: 100m (selffound)
- Lacunis: 20m (selffound)
- Inna Pants: 25m (selffound)
- Ice Climbers: 25m (selffound)
- IK Gloves: 45m
- Helffire ring: free
- Rare Ring: 15m
- Rare Amulet: 55m
- Mainhand Mace: 30m
- Offhand Dagger: 15m
TOTAL: 550m

Note that you can lower the vit on ik armor to get it for 100m cheaper and you can also lower the attack speeds (cause you can hit the same breakpoints with 8as each) on witching, lacunis and inna pants to get them for %25-30 cheaper prices. This means that you can do a similarly effective char for 400m, easily.

My char has 6000+ Armor, 600+ Allres, 50k HP, 170k DPS, 59cc, 5.9ls, 16 melee damage reduction. tDPS is over 1.4m according to d3rawr.com.

NOTE: This char can do mp10 without any deaths (never died in 20-30 runs) with the Overpower: Crushing Advance rune and an Amethyst in Helm. If i use a 30elites/6cold soj (worth 3-4m) in place of my Hellfire ring, I can kill Azmodan in 60 seconds. Without soj it takes like 75 seconds.

I don't think you can make a mp10 farming (at least with this much true dps and effective hp, all in all Battle Efficiency Score) WW barb for these prices if you go for the Echoing Fury in offhand route.

Quote (amok @ Jan 4 2013 11:44am)

Actually, all the "you have to watch which weapon you swing" myth is not true. Sure, there will be a difference between MH and OH swings, but, as you see from the actual numbers, there is very little difference.

I am taking these numbers from d3rawr.com.

tDPS: 1.447.905 (this is the average of the MH/OH) - Say this is 100%
Main hand swing before Sprint (RltW) and WW (Hurricane): 1.389.655 - This is 96% (just 4% lower than average and 8% lower than OH)
Off hand swing before Sprint (RltW) and WW (Hurricane): 1.506.155 - This is 104% (just 4% higher than average and 8% higher than MH)

As you see, even in my setup where my dagger is a very low dps one, there is so little difference between MH and OH damage. You can further narrow this by using a slightly better dps statstick.

Quote (Fooba @ Jan 4 2013 01:05pm)

A friend of mine just recently quit and dumped a bunch of gear and cash on me to use.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Pub-1594/hero/29049159

The only parts that were mine was the echoing fury I carried over and the IK belt I had leftover from my weapon throw barb.
I'm 99% sure that this doesn't even hit 400m budget (because of the deals he found) but I really realized if you find the right stats on the right gear, you can save yourself millions easily. (specifically the chest instead of IK allowing you to not pay for 12% ms boots or CC-less lacunis, etc)

Quote (amok @ Jan 4 2013 01:24pm)

@Tboner

I agree with you generally, and a barb could become much better with an echoing fury offhand. I was trying to say that, if one was aiming for a budget barb with high tDPS and EHP, he/she could go with the statstick route. Simply because EF as offhand can't roll more than 3 of the desired stats: str, vit, cd, socket, ls... And even the 1.45as EF which adds 0.25 to the MH cripples you if you are on a budget, cause 1.45 gives you hard to reach breakpoints.

With a 1.45 as and less stats (considering you get a str, cd, socket EF), you have to worry about AS too. This, together with str, allres, vit, cc, cd, ls, damage reduction, etc, makes your budget go too high.

On a side note: my effective DPS on azmo is 2.3m

Quote (shanelee @ Jan 4 2013 02:02pm)

Just wanted to add, if budget is a concern, mh ef oh sword would give much more dps
Because a 900dps 80chd 160str socket sword cost like nothing, similar ef would break the bank,
A 1200 dps socket str ef is about same price of a decent rare mace.

In the end you pay a lot less for a lot more damage at the e pense of more fear proc.

Also can hit higher bp on sword if using ef mh

Tboner is even mOre helpful in game and very knowledgable, definitely a man with class