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Aug 31 2012 05:35pm
Quote (EVAZ @ 1 Sep 2012 00:17)
the point is that you need to get hit and then move faster for only a few seconds. but for fast runs you want to kill everything for maximum exp! if you wanna do fastest runs possible you should aim for illusionist + teleport and enough life reg. you nn archon with best dps anyways.


Yes good point, I had considered illusionist tele build before. A guess for ultimate speed of farming loot, you want to just tele around the map to find elites. If you want paragon levels going archon will clear masses quicker.

In act 3 there are a lot of range monsters, just try to clear as fast as you can like a normal run. Every so often you get hit and get a bonus movement speed, it's considered a bonus and not really supposed to constantly move at 50% MS. When I was testing I got hit quite often.

An illusionist build would be cool to play with, I'll do some simple calcs to get the right armor/res/hp so most of act 3 mobs can keep me teleporting but not kill me.
Different acts and areas need different gear to keep procing illusionist.
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Aug 31 2012 05:41pm
Quote (RedV @ 1 Sep 2012 01:35)
Yes good point, I had considered illusionist tele build before. A guess for ultimate speed of farming loot, you want to just tele around the map to find elites. If you want paragon levels going archon will clear masses quicker.

In act 3 there are a lot of range monsters, just try to clear as fast as you can like a normal run. Every so often you get hit and get a bonus movement speed, it's considered a bonus and not really supposed to constantly move at 50% MS. When I was testing I got hit quite often.

An illusionist build would be cool to play with, I'll do some simple calcs to get the right armor/res/hp so most of act 3 mobs can keep me teleporting but not kill me.
Different acts and areas need different gear to keep procing illusionist.


I'm not 100% sure but with enough dps desintegrate should do the job as well! or maybe even electrocute? I can kill most trash in a3 with only 1 "tick" of archon (one short right click) and I only got 75k dps! so with 150k or even 200k desintegrate should be enough!

€dit: mb even storm armor + illusionist + teleport?

This post was edited by EVAZ on Aug 31 2012 05:42pm
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Aug 31 2012 07:52pm
Quote (young2093 @ 1 Sep 2012 02:14)


O_o'
Your wizard is a witch doctor.
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Aug 31 2012 08:48pm
u didnt name the weapon u're using

:/
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Aug 31 2012 09:19pm
I like this. I'm doing my ancient crypt runs super fast now, with the same gear.

Edit: Cant do a3 with my current gear and this however

This post was edited by AnBerliN on Aug 31 2012 09:27pm
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Sep 1 2012 07:24am
I'm back to fill in the last 2 slots of my gear guide, but first we need to determine what's better to use 1 hander or 2 hander.
My original post was getting a bit long so I left it until now to put weapons and source back in here.
I don't want this to turn into a massive TL:DR post, so some details I will skip. I suggest looking up stats on affixes data base or AH and fill in some details yourself if you are interested in it. Before I start I will say a few things about affixes

Different items have the same max affix rolls between the same ilvl

Note most of the attirbutes spawn according to ilevel, e.g. crit chance max at ilvl62 is 8.5 and at ilvl63 is 10. This is why on some legendary sources we can have 10% crit and normal rares can max only 8.5%, rares spawn at ilvl62 max, some legendaries sources are ilvl63 (even tho crit is a base spawn on some it still spawns according to ilvl here).
Also amulets are max ilvl62 max so that's why their max crit is also 8.5% while gloves can spawn at ilvl63 so some gloves are 10% crit.
With this knowledge you can remember affixes max spawns for different items easier.

Legendaries can spawn higher.

Slot specific special rolls

Some rolls are different to the principals above.

There's a few more things to remember, rings will generally spawn at about half the ilvl max for other items (rounded about). Each peices of item have slot specific affix max. E.g. boots have a single stat dex of 200, with combo stats boots can spawn 300 dex, while other primary stats like int we want for wiz is only 200. Other examples are chest and pants can spawn single stat 200 vita, so the combo max is 300 vita. Helms can spawn 200 int single stats, 300 max for combo. etc etc.

Now you know how close to max you have rolled. Another thing to remember would be that trying to roll a lot of vita on say a balanced monk on boots is a waste if you have a limited budget. What I mean is if you aim to get say 400+ dex, 500+ vita from chest, pants, boots. It's easier to get 250 dex from boots then just under 100 from both chest and pants, and to get just under 100 vita from boots, just over 200 vita from chest and pants. If you try to roll high vita on boots, and high dex on chest/pants you'll end up paying a lot more.

Know the stats you are aiming for, in a wizard's case let's say about 2k int, 1k vita. You can skip vita completely on certain items, from pants and chest alone you can get 450 and be about half way there.

Now we can start on our weapons comparison

1H v 2H

We need to consider each DPS boost stat 1 by 1.

1) Primary Stat (Int) - 2 handed weapons can now spawn a maximum of 600 for attribute stats (int/str/dex/vita).
1handed weapons can spawn a maximum of 300 for attributes, and sources can spawn 300 for attributes.

(you can easily test this on AH, legendary spawns can be higher than rares but end game weapon would not be any legendary weapon)

# So 1 hand + source wins the first round.

2) Crit Chance

# 1 hand wins easily since source can spawn 8.5% on rares, 10% on legendaries.

3) Attacks Per Second (APS)
3 factors affect APS - Weapon's base APS, + Attack Speed %, + Attack Speed fix value

Since we trying to roll raw damage on amulets and both rings, each can roll more than an average of 60 raw damage (+3x-9x damage).
From the 3 items we have 180 more raw damage, which will scale depending on your APS.

# If there's a 1 hander and 2 hander with the same dps, from the 1 hander's extra APS the 1 hander will have an equivalent of almost another 90 dps.

4) Crit Damage
2 handers can spawn 200 crit damage + socket
1 handers can spawn 100 crit damage + socket.

Let's say we have a DPS of X at 0% crit (base crit is 5% so we never see this on our screen).
We want to calculate the "general max" dps by taking this arbitrary X for now, and calculate crit chance and crit damage from other items. We can then calculate the difference between 1 handers and 2 handers.

We'll base our calculations on the best gear suggested in the original post.
Crit chance, 2* 4.5 from rings, 8.5% from amulet, 10% from gloves, 6% from bracers, 6% from helm, 5% base. We will not take into account of merc for now.
So we have 44.5% base crit, let's discount that a bit to 42 if we don't have perfect rolls.
1hander will have another 8.5% (we won't take the 10% max value here) = 50.5%.

Crit dmg, 2*30 from rings, 60% from amulet, 50% from gloves, 50% from belt, 50% base.
So we have a +270% base crit, this is already not max roll from amulet/rings. Let's discount it a bit more to 260%
2 handers will have another ~290, 1 handers will have another ~190. (10 short from max rolls, and using max gems)
1hander crit dmg = +450%
2hander crit dmg = +550%

Now we can calculate the expected (average dps):
Expected DPS = Base DPS * Crit chance * Damage when we crit + Base DPS * chance of not Criting
Note our gear gives + % Crit Dmg when we crit, which means damage when we crit we need to add 100% more for base damage.

So let's recap our stats - Base DPS = X
1H chance to crit = 50.5% = 0.505
1H damage when we crit is = 450%+100% = 5.5
2H chance to crit = 44.5% = 0.445
2H damage when we crit is = 550%+100% = 6.5

1 Hander DPS = X*0.505*5.5 + X*0.495 = 3.2725*X
2 Hander DPS = X*0.445*6.5 + X*0.555 = 3.4475*X

# 2H finally wins a round. The difference in dps is about 5%
[3.4475/3.2725 = 1.0534. Or in other words if we have 5% more dps from primary stats the 2 dps will be the same]


5) Finally we have a rough look at source raw damage

Let's say an end game 2 hander shows 1700 dps, and an end game 1 hander shows 1350 dps.
We'll just see if having a source can make up for it.
We'll base our calculation on a 100-400 spawn on source which isn't amazingly high.
That gives an average of 250 raw damage.
Ignoring other APS factors and let's say we are using a weapon with base 1.4 APS (wands/swords are 1.4, daggers are 1.5)
250*1.4 = 350

So our 1hander have 1350+350 dps = 1700

# So basically 1 handers with source and 2 handers are about the same in weapon dps. Basically as intended by blizzard.

6) Last but not least we'll take into account of triumvirate's +18% weapon damage.

7) So as a summary the 2 hander wins 1 out of 6 rounds by only 5%, which means 1 hander + source is better than 2 hander.

So Which 1 Hander

For weapon there aren't many options. Basically all legendary and set weapons are too low dps except Echoing fury, the fear on echoing fury is useful for an archon build.
So basically just look for a 1.3k+ weapon with base crit, socket, int spawn.

Note for MAX dps which is something we are looking for here we can't get any life steal. The 6 rolls would be + min damage, + max damage, + % damage, + int, + crit base, + socket. Or + damge with + ias. (You might notice the + xxx-xxx weapons are generally lower dps than + min, + max)
This would be a choice, the life steal is not essential. I survive just fine with enough res + dps, health globes are all I need.

Source

Rare - They can't spawn as high damage as some legendaries and as high crit chance. So basically all rare sources will be bad for high end gear.

The Oculus - 10% crit chance, 10 APoC, 6% Damage against elite. Good utility with the APoC but nothing special.
Reduce cooldown of Teleport by 1-4 seconds, this doesn't reduce archon teleport only the normal teleport. So for this build it's useless, but might have it's uses elsewhere to move as fast as possible.

Tal Rasha's Unwavering Glare - 10% crit chance, 10 APoC. The set bonus of + 3% to fire skill damage adds only damage to fire skill unlike the + elemental damage from tal's amulet. This is basically pointless. No other special ability.

Chantodo's Force - 9% IAS, 10% crit chance. The IAS is a great special ability. This source will offer higher dps than all other sources so far. It has the ability to spawn APoC even though it's not a base roll. I don't think APoC is needed for this build though.

Triumvirate - +18% total elemental damage. We need to figure out if the +18% elemental damage is higher than chantodo's 9% more IAS, 1.5% more crit chance.
Triumvirate max raw damage is 110-405 so on average + 257.5, all of the above 3 can spawn +130-484 so on average 307.
This is slightly tricky, I'll just do a much simplified version of what we should calculate here.

A 1 hander with 1350 dps we are looking for will have say 1.4 APS, + 50% dmg. So our raw damage is 1350/1.4/1.5 = 642. Let's just call it 650.

Now let's calculate what our 1 hander + source's equivalent 2hander dps is, we will leave out crit chance here for now.
With Chantodo's Force we'll have (650+307)*1.4*1.5*1.09 = 2190.573
With Triumvirate we'll have (650+257.5)*1.4*(1.5+0.18) = 2176.77

Chantodo's is a tiny bit better, and have another 1.5% more crit.
Chantodo's can also spawn higher int.
So Chantodo's is very slightly better than Triumvirate.

We've not taken into account of intertwined IAS, damage, crit % etc from other gear.
At MAX possible from my more detailed calculations Triumvirate is slightly better, this is mostly due to the fact that rings and amulets can spawn +3x-9x damage.
My detailed calculations I will not post here since this is already a massive text wall. However 2190-2176 = 14. With 3 times +3x-9x from 2 rings and amulet the +0.18 (18% elemental damage) makes Triumvirate build have higher DPS.

Now in practical terms triumvirate's main source of unique damage is from the elemental damage which rolls 15-18. It's easy to get a high roll here and have a reasonably high roll on raw damage. Chantodo's significantly higher raw damage than triumvirate is much harder to roll, it's +(32-130) - (33-484).

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Sep 1 2012 12:35pm
Quote (young2093 @ 31 Aug 2012 19:14)


Herp Derp.
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Sep 1 2012 01:22pm
nice build could u post ur stats

This post was edited by xxxguzxxx on Sep 1 2012 01:23pm
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Sep 2 2012 06:20am
Quote (xxxguzxxx @ 1 Sep 2012 20:22)
nice build could u post ur stats


207k dps, 1k all res without archon, 36k hp.
far from what i need to really use scramble well.
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