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d2jsp Forums > Diablo > Diablo 3 > D3 Discussion > Diminishing Returns: Debunking The Myth > Resistances And Armor Do Not Diminish
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Jul 29 2012 05:42pm
Quote (jf59 @ Jul 29 2012 11:39pm)
Tl;dr/basically:

With 50k life and no all resists or dodge and the mob hits for 50k:

When you have 0 armor, it takes 1 hit to kill you.
When you have 3100 armor, it takes 2 hits to kill you.
When you have 6200 armor, it takes 3 hits to kill you.
When you have 9300 armor, it takes 4 hits to kill you.
When you have 12400 armor, it takes 5 hits to kill you.


Actually, with 1 armor it'd take 2 hits to kill you (49999 dmg :p), the breakpoint per hit with those stats are even 3000's. 3100 armor would actually mean you get hit for 24590.

This post was edited by Blodulf on Jul 29 2012 05:44pm
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Jul 29 2012 05:50pm
Quote (Blodulf @ Jul 29 2012 05:42pm)
Actually, with 1 armor it'd take 2 hits to kill you (49999 dmg :p), the breakpoint per hit with those stats are even 3000's. 3100 armor would actually mean you get hit for 24590.


Shh, you know what I mean -_-, and these stats are roughly.
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Jul 29 2012 05:54pm
Quote (jf59 @ Jul 29 2012 11:50pm)
Shh, you know what I mean -_-, and these stats are roughly.


Well yeah, you get the idea :)
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Jul 29 2012 06:24pm
nvm - i do some math later

but i am pretty sure last time i looked there was still diminishing returns just not in any way to the extent most people beleive, not linear like you say

This post was edited by eJsss on Jul 29 2012 06:27pm
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Jul 29 2012 06:50pm
Quote (eJsss @ Jul 30 2012 12:24am)
nvm - i do some math later

but i am pretty sure last time i looked there was still diminishing returns just not in any way to the extent most people beleive, not linear like you say


Feel free to do the math, unless you do it wrong there's only one possible conclusion: that 1 point of res always adds the same % of your base hp to your EHP.
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Jul 29 2012 11:36pm
The better question is, in a game where youd like your healthpool to actually never drop lower and you have to rely on loh/ls/leak to fill it up parallel with incoming damage. Why the fuck would you care about "ehp" and not total damage mitigation? Id take 25khp with 600ehp sooner than 100khp with 800ehp..

Might be just me..

This post was edited by Neuuubeh on Jul 29 2012 11:36pm
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Jul 30 2012 01:45am
Hm interesting, but what puzzles me is the ratio between Resistance and Armor that you don't mention. The entire concept of EHP is based on both armor and resistance reduction, but would the effecient gain from resistance -> EHP be the same regardsless of your current armor?
So basically what you are saying is that regardless of your current % or amount in armor/resistance, a 20% increase (say by skills) in both values will always be the same in EHP but the %'s will just appear to be different?
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Jul 30 2012 03:20am
Should be stickied.
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Jul 30 2012 03:29am
Thinking about it, one might say, that +armor is only a good stat if the items already has high allres and you want to go beyond that in damage reduction, planning to get allres on every piece possible. Otherwise the rolls will be far from the 10/1 armor/@ that roughly holds for EHP.
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Jul 30 2012 05:23am
Quote (Neuuubeh @ Jul 30 2012 05:36am)
The better question is, in a game where youd like your healthpool to actually never drop lower and you have to rely on loh/ls/leak to fill it up parallel with incoming damage. Why the fuck would you care about "ehp" and not total damage mitigation? Id take 25khp with 600ehp sooner than 100khp with 800ehp..

Might be just me..


Actually, I did cover for that:

Quote (Blodulf @ Jul 29 2012 09:56pm)
There's also a few "hidden" perks to increasing the amount of damage you mitigate over just inflating your hp. For example, if your build relies heavily on heals that are not based on a percentage of your life, they will actually be much more efficient with high DR and low hp at the same EHP values as the opposite; high hp and low DR. Heals based on a % of your life (like revenge) are actually completely unaffected. The only thing that matters for those is effective hp.

The same goes for items with the increases life by x% mods. They don't need high vita to be good. They will increase your EHP by the same % nomatter what your hp is.


A lot of barbs fex do *not* rely on static heals like LoH but work it out with revenge instead. For them, EHP is the only number that matters.

Quote (CorZor^ @ Jul 30 2012 07:45am)
Hm interesting, but what puzzles me is the ratio between Resistance and Armor that you don't mention. The entire concept of EHP is based on both armor and resistance reduction, but would the effecient gain from resistance -> EHP be the same regardsless of your current armor?
So basically what you are saying is that regardless of your current % or amount in armor/resistance, a 20% increase (say by skills) in both values will always be the same in EHP but the %'s will just appear to be different?


Well, thats where it gets tricky and I choose not to go into depth with that in this topic. Like I said, the purpose here was just to illustrate that 1 point of res or armor can never be worth less than the previous because you suddenly have a lot of res/armor. You're right though, at some numbers it will be more efficient for your reduction to go the res route and at some armor will triumph.

Quote (Kasiir @ Jul 30 2012 09:29am)
Thinking about it, one might say, that +armor is only a good stat if the items already has high allres and you want to go beyond that in damage reduction, planning to get allres on every piece possible. Otherwise the rolls will be far from the 10/1 armor/@ that roughly holds for EHP.


Well, the 1:10 ratio *will* vary a lot depending on what you have. If you keep your stats well balanced 1:10 should be more like 1:13-14 though. I've seen people who've dropped as far as 1:6 (mainly witchdoctors and DH's) due to simply neglecting armor. Whats better for you is all depending on what you've already got.
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