Fair enough. But the fallacy is thinking that a shield handicaps my dmg as much as you make it out to sound like.

Yes dual wield CAN do higher dps. dual wield with 700 dps weapons 1.4 APS or faster i was at around 18k... with a shield i dropped to 17k. Not substantial enough to think my enemies will never die. maybe 2-3 seconds longer?
My current setup i switch between DW and shield as i deem necessary (lets say prolonged fights, on belial, or extra HP champs) and my setup i do 26k DW and 23.5 k shield. Not a massive hit. coupled with 15% APS lower, ill take 5+ seconds longer. *meh* my mitigation stats more than make up for it ESPECIALLY vs ranged mobs that when i DW i cannot be hitting at the same time as melee mobs on me...

I understand what you are saying.
Here is the reason I still believe shields to be trash.
You get some mitigation. Granted.
Your mitigation is at least, in part due to a chance that you may block an attack, thereby reducing the damage.

I am basing my opinion on the fact that I use life per hit.
It scales with how fast I can hit.
15% faster hits yield 15% more life per hit reward.

This isn't based on a chance that I may or may not block some incoming damage.

I have 32% crit chance.
There are times while using cyclone that I wont crit at all for 5 seconds attacking 2.2 times a second.
what happens when someone doesn't block for that long?
I understand that they have to use a cooldown or move to recover life.
I don't.

I watch the top 1/4 of my health globe flicker a bit when swamped by enemies.
Spoze a shield does the same... unless his mitigation fails a couple rolls in a row.

My mitigation is consistant and based on attack speed.
Shields are somewhat consistant with armor, but mostly based on the assumption that you may block some damage.
and helms of command are still in demand with those piecea being garbage

Posting from my phone sucks.

My point was if block isn't that important why are helms of command and the block ring so overpriced?
Both are worthless if you don't need block chance.

People overpay because they believe that block is great for monks.

Until blizz puts a cap on lph or nerfs something, shields are a complete waste considering
You get more real mitigation from speed and lph.

Also reread my post. I never did say 1 mil per. I said 1 mil for weapons. The s makes it plural.


You do have a compelling arguement but the fact remains that even though you can use a shield as a monk... you would perform better without one cheaper.

Get over myself?
Why? You are the one saying that you gave me very credible reason why you are correct and stating like I did that your.
Point 100% stands.

To be honest I really enjoyed your argement and I was starting to see the other side of the coin until you said that I am some super rich multi million gold having player.
I broke 5 mil for the first time ever last night.
I never have gotten that big drop you did.
I farmed a1 until my eyes bled. Pushed through a2 the same way and couldn't touch a3 at all.
I spend millions trying out different setups including the shield idea you promote and found the cheapest and most efficiient
Way a monk can survive is speed, a good spec, and dual wielding.
The next time you feel the need to tell someone to get over themselves you may want to take a second and make sure you didn't just
try to judge them or assume what they are.
Perhaps you are the one who is wrong.

If you can chill on the epeen fluffery and would like to carry on this discussion that would be great and it will help monks here immensely. If you don't.. that is cool too.

Btw... monk is my only char besides a dh that I zk'd up and parked to run sark when my repair bills got too high before I figured out how to play a monk.

This post was edited by Cide_PR on Jul 11 2012 05:42pm

Dual wielding wastes a passive you could of used for either resolve/transcendence/sieze.

Using a shield negates a damaging attack that would of hit for ~3k down to zero, around 50% of the time if you're geared properly.

Shields are good cheap options for defensive stats, 1k armor, resistances and block can be huge... coupled with helm and ring, 50% block is insane. Remember that block is applied AFTER all mitigation. These stats let you attack without moving for longer.

Dual wielding is very nice if you have LOH/ias, crit/atkspeed to back it up. Those stats are the most expensive stats on the AH. Also, the 15% extra dodge is not a raw addition, it's (1-.15)*(1-your current dodge), whereas the shield block is a straight up addition of percentages.

Also, LOH only works if you are actually, well, hitting something (that is unshielded) while dodge (makes no sense) and block are active while crowd controlled.

The biggest advantage of a shield to me is the 20% MF that's possible on a shield.

Ok... I will test it some more. I will try the less life per hit and drop about 90 crit dmg for a shield once again and check how my.less life on hit less
Spirit generating less damage more mitigation luck goes.

I still believe that dw rules shields but... I have a couple shields and I will run a3 with them again and see what is better.
I still think you guys are buying overpriced gear since I see fast weapons with lots of loh and dps sell for 500k or less all the time.

not sure where you guys findin all these cheap ass monk weapons LOL.
maybe they get bought out on ah before i can even see them...but HALF DECENT monk weaps are goin for like 10 mil STARTIN bid LOL.

idk where the hell you guys findin these cheap 1 mil weaps...they must be super garbage haha

But on the side note.

shield is VERY good. I personally dual weld AND shield when needed (vs tough elites with like shieldin or some nasty affix combos where i can no longer just sit and shift click FoTin and instead start to kite with my deadly reach till they get real low hp before i jump in with serenity n FoT finish them off).

imo a good monk will have both setups. i mean, you got alot of inventory space, so its not like its gonna hurt you to have a shield there where you simply swap it off of your off hand haha.

Cide-PR.

Didn't mean to offend, When i said get over yourself, i did not mean it as a malicious remark. I read a couple of your posts as condescending when calling shield using trash, and a waste... when you would be much more well received if you simply said that you PREFER Dual Wield because of x reasons compared to any negative uses of using shields... basically you took a very high and mighty approach, i felt. But i could be wrong.

You miss the main point i was making, again shields is not 100% about the block it is mostly about the ARMOR. Pure armor, is not a mitigation based on % chance of block. the Armor value is a static armor gain which adds 1k-1.5k++ of pure Damage Mitigation. Switching a shield on and off, watch your mitigation % you will see quite a big change. This is where i see the biggest benefit of shields. Block, stats, crit are all just icing on the cake, but not THE cake.

LoH is great, and with a shield i can still have 1k+ LoH with 20%+ crit rate/+% crit dmg and moderate attack speeds from 1.6 to 1.8 ranges. those stats easily content with many dual wield setups.
Yes, each setup CAN depend greatly on the cost factor, just how much a person has to spend. If we are taking PURELY low budget for the average gamer, i have to say without a doubt that a shield setup is the most bang for your buck and will get you the furthest into Inferno without requiring a huge amount more for your budget. Dual wield, undoubtedly requires a better budget, two matching half decent weapons with LoH/crit dmg, good attack speed, AND the rest of you gear should be high enough to make up for a lack of shield armor and wtver bonus stats they can have. At the same time, i already explained the benefits of Dual Wield and why i ALSO very much enjoy dual wield...

On that note, i think it is fair to say that no one can straight up call one setup trash compared to the other without sounding extremely biased.
Each one has great benefits but each case depends MASSIVELY on many factors like budget, type of fight, duration of fight, type of statistics the player is stacking, favored playstyle of that player, etc etc. Neither one is 100% best in all situations, that much i can ALMOST say without bias, is a fact. just more food for thought

Put this one to bed guys. Shields are garbage. Dual wield or your doing it wrong.


i've been saying this since release. OMG