[5/11] - Skill Trees - Topic

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May 11 2009 04:02pm

[5/11] - Skill Trees
Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=16903518463&postId=171109013768&sid=3000#3

Original Post:

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I'm new and a bit late to the gaem but I think I've researched as much as I can on the skill trees. I apologize if I missed a post here or there explaining something that I missed.

From what I gather skills can have up to five points in them and five points is required in a tier to advance downward. (most of this information came from blizzcast 8) I read a post by bashiok saying that it isn't final, itteration, that customization is a big part of the game and they won't stop adding itSo I think he did a good job of covering all possible exits.

My question, or rather observation, is that the requirement to spend 5 skill points to advance down a new tier doesn't actually allow for that much customization. It also makes people focus on specific trees as a whole (because theyre investing their points) instead of being able to mix and match. So you may have trees 1, 2, and 3. In the end there are only so many potential builds you can get out of this.

1, with some of 2
2, with some of 1
2, with some of 3
etc etc

We're assuming that you get one skill point per level, with 99 levels you could pretty much reach the bottom of each tree by the end of the game. But that's spending in a very linear fashion. Only spending enough points to max out one skill from each tier. It's unlikely those would be optimal builds whatsoever. If they are, that's a separate problem. But more than likely the "X with some of Y" I proposed above is more likely.

So, I'm curious, is this lack of customization something anyone else is worried about? I don't doubt they understand how these things work, and it's not done, but it just stucked out to me I guess as a problem.

Response:

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As you mentioned and I had said in that rather lengthy post (Dont like the word "talent tree" http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=16137707438&postId=161356375740&sid=3000#48), we're under heavy iteration. The version shown off with BlizzCast was a prototype in many ways, and a jumping off point in others.

We're working with a modified skill tree system now of what we showed, under heavy testing and scrutiny. It's of course not final, the ideas it proposes are something we're happy with in their direction but they could very well change. In fact I would bet on them continuing to evolve.

So, the system we have now... you'll have to just picture it without any visual representation, sorry. They're not radically different visually except that the trees are all viewable at the same time. Taking the barbarian trees (berserker, battlemaster, juggernaut) and not tabbing them, but having them all viewable simultaneously. Side by side.

This is important due to how they are now apart of a unified tier progression. Instead of spending 5 points in the berserker tree to then begin spending points in the second tier of the berserker tree, the new design allows you to spend wherever you like. As long as your points in the first tier of skills adds up to five, the next tier for all trees is unlocked.

So, I could spend 2 points in Heightened Senses which is a berserker skill, and 3 points in Bash which is a Juggernaut skill, thus adding up to 5 points and granting me access to the second tier of skills for all of the trees. With this amount of freedom you can see how easy it is then to diversify yourself and your build. You're no longer gaining abilities through investment, but instead more through choice and personal preference.

It certainly diversifies the types and amounts of builds available to players, that's obvious. This style of a unified tier approach also helps in a few other areas though. Since all of the trees are open we can clean up the trees a lot more, removing redundant abilities. We don't have to throw in skills that are important, such as damage mitigation, all over the place. You will always have access to those skills no matter where you're spending, so they can instead be focused into a few key skills. Another way it helps is by allowing players access to the skills they want, and the skills we want them to have. Every barbarian is probably going to want whirlwind. And why not? What this tree style allows for, and one reason we're pretty keen on it, is that we aren't saying "You're a 'berserker' barbarian, you can't have whirlwind". Instead, you're a barbarian!, pick the key skills that define you and your character as you want them to be.

One important addition to this is the skill caps themselves. Currently we're envisioning the majority of skills to be capped at 5 points, to begin with. As a form of progression we're planning for players to be able to increase the point caps of skills. More than likely to a maximum of 15. It's a system that's still under heavy design, but the fact of choosing and increasing key skills beyond their initial cap is important to this new unified tier system.

So, once again these are things that are still under heavy design and iteration. They're changes we're testing, and while we like how they play there are certainly issues or flaws that could cause an entire switch to something else.