I've been an upper body warrior for 2/3 of my workout career

don't be a curl monkey

The bro-science is heavy in this thread. Clean bulk? Niggas please...

True, somewhat controversial. Still it's possible to get bigger with a relatively low excess fat but that takes "more time" measurements wise as fat also adds cm's.

3kg of lean muscle per year (regularly training person, near perfect conditions, WADA approved) means you need to eat just 12kcal extra per day.
That's why an average joe eat's all he can to not be in calorie deficit and grow, also storing bodyfat.

I'm not saying the concept of it is a broscience. It's just there's no such thing as a dirty bulk or a clean bulk. Either you're in a large surplus or you're in a minor surplus. Some people even refer to clean and dirty bulks as the type of food you eat. Bros need to have a get together and straighten their shit out.

EDIT: I believe in bulking with a 500 calorie surplus, don't get me wrong. When I go to bulk, that's what I plan on doing.

This post was edited by Trolloaloal33 on Sep 16 2011 10:57am

ahem, differentiating the 2 would require taking micronutrients into consideration as well as the ratios between each of your macronutrients.

so its more complex then you think

No, it's not. When I talk about cutting or bulking, it should ALWAYS be assumed that your macros are in check. Once again, I don't believe in ratios either. That's more bro-ology. What's a 50/30/20 going to do for me? Make shit extremely hard to do, that's what. Clean and dirty bulks aren't complex. It's bro-talk for non-sense. Not once have I ever heard of someone distinguishing the two based on micronutrients. It's like people keep adding to the list of what they are. Micronutrients and macronutrients can be hit despite eating junk or not and they can be hit despite being at a major surplus or a minor surplus. Those two things should always be in check, it's common sense when it comes to nutrition.

Yep I agree on that, you'r in plus or you aren't.




I'd just go with macro as most guys apparently have every single substance existing on planet as capsules sitting on selves.

lol yeah lots of people fill these gaps with supps. but checkit, for instance what they do consume, lot of saturated fats for instance...or a fuck load of sodium, refined sugars, etc. id consider that dirty.

And that's the problem. Why is that dirty? There's nothing wrong with saturated fat, sugar, or sodium. It makes no difference when it comes to body composition. If we're talking about health, then MAYBE it does. Saturated fats don't effect your body negatively, btw. That's just a myth. You can eat garbage all you want on a bulk. Make sure you hit your macros and micros, then go throw back a box of Snickers. IIFYM then who cares? Eating some veggies or whatever and get your micros. Done, now you're set. You can go plow through trash if you want. It won't make your body look worse, but you'll probably suffer internally.

This post was edited by Trolloaloal33 on Sep 16 2011 11:43am