Sup man, I've just been trollin around in GC because it gets too ded in here.

its fun over there

I'm not sure what you're getting at? I think we're agreeing, and maybe you only saw my one post.

I am just a huge proponent for alternatives to what is mainstream. Keto diets have proven to be very effective across a wide spectrum of issues, from fat loss to cancer, it is sustainable long term, and importantly, hasn't actually shown any detrimental effects either. The biggest or best thing about this I think, and seems to be supported by the people I've referenced earlier ITT, is, once fat adapted, going in and out of ketosis a couple times a year and just eating a micronutrient dense, low carb is ideal.

For most people, the issue is getting past the first 2-3 weeks. If you can muster the will power to just deal with it while your body is adjusting, the benefits can be great. But again, keto still isn't for everyone. It is a process figuring out what works and I can only hope you guys find something that works for you.

Biggest thing for the average person is probably just adding more vegetables, fiber, and water, and decrease overall sugar intake. Shit is literally poison.

What do you mean by HDL/LDL aren’t great indicators?

The sustainability problem is that willpower doesn't work. People need to take the time to form new habits, but most people lack self-discipline. Hence the problem. The solution is for people to see a bigger picture, so that they can go beyond motivation and willpower (both of which fail) toward inspiration and seeing a picture (both of which work).



I mean that it's not a precise, predictive measure. It's a good general indicator, but again, current research is showing that we want a way to look at carb consumption rather than an accumulation of cholesterol to predict heart disease. My belief is that ingestion of too much sticky food (carbs, saturated fat, and I doubt they're the only culprits) is going to create an abdunace of undigested food, waste, toxin build-up, bad bacterial overgrowth, increase in acidity, increase in plaque build-up, etc etc. If you want a slightly more accurate picture of what's probably wrong just look at someone's diet and exercise plan over time (people don't make these plans, but I wouldn't mind if it became a requirement that if you wnat to see a doctor you should actually take care of your own shit). Or use more medical technologies. But looking at HDL/LDL (in isolation) should be outmoded, just as pap smears (expensive, invasive) should be outmoded. To be clear, looking at HDL/LDL levels is useful and it is predictive, but it's not enough.

First part, willpower does work, but it isn't a cut and dry type of thing. Discipline is wrapped up in there, along with plenty of other things, that manifest itself as willpower. Comes down to you indulging in 'negative' behavior (negative in the sense that it does not further you along to your target), as opposed to positive behavior. It doesn't help that sugar is one of the most addictive substances we could ingest, and that it finds itself in almost every manufactured food now. And on top of that, the issue being propagated by past administrations (food pyramid) and legit scientists falsifying information / selling out to industry heads benefiting from a transition to sugar as a staple

HDL/LDL (my understanding) is good for showing a general guideline ratio wise, in what is healthy or normal, but is obviously relative to the individual (and an increase in HDL/LDL outside of 'normal ranges' can be/still is good). Saturated fat is not bad man, stop that. I want to slap you on the wrist. Sugar, bad (yes, even in moderation). Saturated fat, good (moderation). It turns out testing/analyzing HDL/LDL alongside other common, and relatively cost effective tests is a very good predictor for many issues (why we have different blood panels) but it's not to say it is the end-all-be-all for health diagnostics.


And idk what you fucks are talking about with salt. Obviously too much is bad, too little is bad, salt:body weight ratios are general guidelines that seem to match for many people over a large spectrum.. not set in stone. If you cook all your own meals, it is very easy to pinpoint sodium intake and figure out what you think fits best (and if you can afford it, shell out for comprehensive blood panels and whatever the hell it is that tests micronutrient levels too, so you can see exactly what you may deficient of, so that you can target them specifically)

I think a broader spectrum of tests should be done for patients, especially patients 35-40+. That way you can get a much better lead on predictable or existing conditions. And don't get me wrong, my business makes money of MDs not doing extra testing on their patients, so I have literally the least possible stake in saying that.

The problem with saturated fat is the cholesterol levels are still being used as a general indicator ... and again, I'm not saying testing cholesterol levels is a terrible idea. The problem isn't consumption of saturated fat, but there is a problem with overconsumption of saturated fat. There are a few issues: first, there are digestive/waste issues which accrue with overconsumption of just about everything but fibre; second, I'm still fairly confident that overconsumption of saturated fat creates blockages. Overconsumption of sugar definitely causes blockages, but I don't think we should completely rule out the case for saturated fat; third, saturated animal fat, in particular, is toxin-laden.

On discipline and willpower: discipline can involve willpower at times, but willpower doesn't work, and that's why discipline needs to be paired with a compelling picture of the future--a focused "why" and goal-setting are helpful for new habit formation. Another problem is that most of the time we're running scripts that determine our behaviour, and we need to interrupt these scripts in order to install new behaviour and novel thinking. The distinction between negative and positive behaviour is descriptive rather than prescriptive. That is, we want people to engage in positive rather than negative behaviours but we can't expect people to flip a switch and make the necessary changes. If we want people to become self-disciplined, we need to guide them toward seeing the massive benefits and the great feelings that follow from making better choices and taking better actions It's more than that, but people need tools to become more strategic and skilled when it comes to decision-making

e: I should say that part of using a broader spectrum of tests can be expensive--esp. in cases when labs are involved. Some tests are very inexpensive to the medical system, while others have a cost. But patients should at least be able to opt-in on the tests. In Canada, we have universal health care, but some MDs won't order certain covered tests or the tests aren't covered and they certainly won't order them--they wouldn't even know how to interpret most of them anyway. So we face a problem in Canada, but in the US I believe it's a bigger problem than it is here.

This post was edited by RewtheBrave on Nov 28 2017 03:42pm

Do you have studies/links to information directly linking saturated fat to clogging arteries / animal fats being riddled with toxins? I'd like to see a study accounting for saturated fats solely, sugar solely, 50/50, and 75/25 either way, based on recommended daily consumption. I think too much saturated fat in conjunction with sugar would be extremely bad, but 1 I haven't seen anything linking, or even drawing a solid correlation between plaque build up. I'm also not scouring the internet for these studies every single day so maybe they are out there and you can share please.

And I don't doubt the latter with factory farming practices, but pretty easy to skirt that issue when shopping imo if you are careful with which stores you go to / products you purchase and can maybe afford a few extra bucks on your grocery bill (cut out junk food/drinks and you end up saving money)

Blood tests are weird in the U.S.; you must have a Dr order the test in a lot of states, cannot opt to pay out of pocket, and a lot of insurance companies don't really offer affordable plans involving comprehensive and routine blood panels. Then again, I guess that wouldn't benefit them anyway, the burden is placed on the individual to educate themselves in most things health oriented and it's the Dr's job to push a new medication on the patient.

I think we're arguing semantics with willpower and discipline. It all starts with someone making the decision to do one thing differently each day, that will net them a positive gain toward some goal. And that sounds a lot like willpower, someone being able to bridge that mental gap between thought and action. Much like discipline, doing something for x reason despite y. The individual needs to harness the will to do some task, or change some habit etc., so correct me here if you're seeing something I'm not, but where is the breakdown exactly?

You can start here on saturated fat and clogging or arteries: http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/cholesterol-and-heart-disease
In medical science, the definition of terms surrounding clogged arteries often coincides with remarks about the relationship to cholesterol and overconsumption of saturated fat. Many will flat out say that arterial plaque usually is composed of cholesterol. Here's what happens if you search for studies: first, you will get a flood of what are essentially paid ads condemning sugar intake. Then, as you dig a bit deeper, you'll find medical term definitions that say ingested cholesterol causes heart disease; finally, you'll find studies that show the same. The older the study, the more likely you'll see fingers being pointed at cholesterol and saturated fat; the newer the study, the more you'll see fingers being pointed at sugar.

I'll try to be clearer on the distinction between willpower and self-discipline, etc.

Willpower - this is a reserve of energy we have to help us control our behaviour. Each day our reserve runs low. Studies show that even the act of making decisions itself can reduce our willpower. The fewer decisions we make, the less we need to worry about depleted willpower. The point is not to make fewer decisions; it's to organize our day and make big decisions early and the have a set of rules and strategies in place to help us make better decisions. That way, when willpower is gone, we don't turn into morons. Willpower is moment-to-moment: if you like cake but you don't want to eat cake because you're fat, you rely on willpower to not eat it. But then someone else offers you some cake. No thanks. Then you see cake at the supermarket. Fuuuuuuuuuck, now you eat some cake. And possible more cake than what you would've eaten if you said yes the first time. This is how willpower operates.

Self-discipline - this is also related to self-restraint, but so is, for example, 'sacrifice'. But none of these terms means the exact same thing. Willpower lacks structure. It's just an "oomph" to do something. And while willpower can be habit-forming (i.e., the unfortunate habit of using willpower), it doesn't help us create new habits. Self-discipline, by contrast, is structured, it can be lasting, and when it's lasting, it's often habit-forming and, of course, it can be a habit in itself).

Say that I want to lose 30 pounds--and keep it off. Willpower miiiiight be enough to help me force my way to my initial goal--but probably not. Usually, willpower needs some help. If I deploy self-discipline instead, I can harness but not rely on willpower, because I will organize and strategize my weight loss. This should give me a better chance to make big-picture changes in lifestyle that help me keep the weight off.

Self-discipline is a scale of greater magnitude than willpower, but it has a few new features, too.

Habits and habit formation: it takes, on average, 67 days to form a new habit. Willpower rarely leads to new habit development because it's too fleeting. It's difficult to attach a purpose to willpower and make it go on and on forever. It's better to cultivate self-discipline, strategic thinking, goal setting, visualization, mindfulness practice, goal setting, etc. if you want to change a habit. Habits are actions in the world, but they are really about our mental state and programming. If you think of habits as grooves in the mind (in a sense, they actually look like grooves in the mind)--like dried up canals through which streams of thought flow. They are also repetitive, so the same groove is being dug in with each repetition of thought and action. It takes a lot of work to create new habits because we tend to prefer--follow the flow of--old ways of thinking and old habits. We literally need to break new mind-ground to create new habits. Using willpower is a bit like throwing sticks in a river. Self-discipline is more like hiring engineers and a crew to help us build a bridge or dam a river.

I hope that helps clear things up

This post was edited by RewtheBrave on Nov 28 2017 08:00pm

I ain’t a doctor or anything...but I thought I’d chime in the following:

I read an article in the Harvard journal of medicine that says intermittent fasting is correlated with increased lifespan...

Don’t know if anyone has looked into this...

Also...my friend who fasts for 48 hours every week and runs marathons says he has felt heaps better since he started fasting. He doesn’t fast to lose weight, but for the other health benefits.