but who is to say thats a shortcut? when their is no determined goal.
the amount of work put in, whether natural or unnatural, is the SAME.

and cases can be made (very very strong ones), while someone isnt natural, their workouts are tougher, longer, more frequent and more intense.
how would that be easier, or a shortcut.

I'm just saying getting to the end physique in a faster amount of time is a shortcut.
And I'm for steroids anyways lol I'm hoping to try a cycle in the next 2-3 years.. I'm just saying if you want to be technical you can't really refute someone calling it a shortcut.. unless you're competing in organizations that don't test.

^ been telling this to everyone.. When you inject yourself with steroids it doesn't mean your just gonna fucking obtain ronnie coleman status right away.. it takes hard work, dedication, diet and so many other factors.. saying that someone got big solely because of steroids is for frail people

Who is saying that though?

Just talking about random frail faggots like me

but thats the thing,
the "end" physique is determined by who?

for someone who is natural, the end physique is a totally different physique from someone who isnt natural.
its like comparing apple and oranges,

straight up can not be compared

contestant 1 begins race at point A and gets to finish line B in 10 years

contestant 1 begins race at point A and never gets to finish line C

contestant 2 begins race at point A and gets to finish line B in 2 years due to steroids

contestant 2 begins race at point A and gets to finish line C in 10 years

they both reached their potential in 10 years. so there was no shortcut

tear is arguing relative potential (finish line b for contestant 1 and finish line c for contestant 2)

while balla (and myself) are arguing absolute potential (finish line B for both contestants)

both are correct. however it should be noted that finish line c was never an option for contestant 1 so it's hard to even consider it a variable.

well yeah, you guys are saying, cause you use steroids you will obtain a better end goal body quicker,
but im saying

once you start down that path and continue, you have a different path to follow.


natural limits
and unnatural limits

are incomparable

yeah it's like comparing apples and oranges really.

just for the record its hard for me to believe that the so called "natural" bbers (the ridiculously big ones i mean) never took any kind of prohormones at any point of their lives. it's hard for me not to project my own perceived limitations i guess.