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Sep 22 2014 11:27am
Quote (MyAddiction @ Sep 22 2014 05:16pm)
^

i always sleep much better when i smoke indica... i'd hope Balla isn't trying to sleep on sativa but that could be the case


Dat granddaddy purple sleep is no joke.
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Sep 22 2014 01:11pm
Quote (TheMagicFlightBox @ Sep 22 2014 07:30am)
Balla,

Is there any evidence that pot negatively effects REM sleep?



Yeah. It's known to at least partly impede REM sleep, specifically. Mechanistically, it interferes with normal norepi induced pineal melatonin secretion.. So supplementing with melatonin should mitigate it.
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Sep 22 2014 03:31pm
On that dab time
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Sep 22 2014 04:02pm
i just slept last night without smoking but i took melatonin. great night sleep but i had this weird nightmare where a baby was driving a couch.
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Sep 22 2014 06:19pm
Quote (ChrTal @ Sep 22 2014 06:02pm)
i just slept last night without smoking but i took melatonin. great night sleep but i had this weird nightmare where a baby was driving a couch.


Makes sense (as far as dreaming)

funnily enough, I didn't really buy into the impeded REM from marijuana, bc as I used everyday for over a year, I generally felt fine and rested well enough. However, I did notice I ALMOST never dreamed for that entire time. When I went to the beach and didn't smoke any this summer, every night I had extremely vivid dreams, reminscent of some occuring REM rebound. Since then, and from studying things a bit more, I absolutely think melatonin is a must. I use it literally right before I lay down, not to help me with sleep, as the cannabis does that on its own. But as it's broken down semi-quickly, I'm just trying to let it kick in/absorb once I'm already asleep and the rest can take over normally.

On top of everything, I can hardly think of any single thing out there that's more positive for health, in virtually every possible way, than melatonin. There's no reason for everyone not to take it every night. It won't hurt at all and will only help.

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Sep 22 2014 07:59pm
Quote (Balla @ Sep 22 2014 07:19pm)
Makes sense (as far as dreaming)

funnily enough, I didn't really buy into the impeded REM from marijuana, bc as I used everyday for over a year, I generally felt fine and rested well enough. However, I did notice I ALMOST never dreamed for that entire time. When I went to the beach and didn't smoke any this summer, every night I had extremely vivid dreams, reminscent of some occuring REM rebound. Since then, and from studying things a bit more, I absolutely think melatonin is a must. I use it literally right before I lay down, not to help me with sleep, as the cannabis does that on its own. But as it's broken down semi-quickly, I'm just trying to let it kick in/absorb once I'm already asleep and the rest can take over normally.

On top of everything, I can hardly think of any single thing out there that's more positive for health, in virtually every possible way, than melatonin. There's no reason for everyone not to take it every night. It won't hurt at all and will only help.


Dose?
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Sep 22 2014 08:11pm
Quote (bugeyewagon @ Sep 22 2014 09:59pm)
Dose?


Really whatever helps you not feel groggy the next day (some people note that depending on the dose). 0.3mg to 5mg is a good and typically studied range. I usually just stick with the normal 3mg dose
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Sep 22 2014 08:56pm
If anyone wants A LOT more information about cannabis and cannabinoids in general, here's a free full pdf dl link to a detailed book:

http://libgen.org/book/index.php?md5=26A818CAA6D8944369B370902334C983

Most of what I know was found before I stumbled upon this book 3-4 weeks ago.. what a shame too, very handy to have it all here lol. Plus it's quite nuanced. For that reason, it's going to be a hard read.. well, at least many sections involving the pure molecular biology of things, for those not well versed in the sciences. For the most part still good though.
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Sep 23 2014 07:36pm
Have info on concentrates vs non for medicinal use?
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Sep 24 2014 04:36am
Quote (Balla @ Sep 19 2014 06:29am)
Eh, there's some interesting effects but nothing worthy of concern in regards to metabolism & weight loss. Well, that's at least assuming you don't stay constantly high for most of the day.. then I could perhaps see deleterious effects.

In general, the biggest concern w/ cannabis use is simple hyperphagia (ravenous hunger) due to a robust rise in ghrelin levels + direct hypothalamic AMPK expression, both of which drive hunger. It does actually increase leptin, however, leptin isn't a judge of the acute satiety response, so paroxysmal hunger prevails. Ergo, by far the biggest cause of concern is simply consuming excessive calories consistently.

Other effects that MAY be deleterious to certain metabolic processes, include things like possible acute decrease in t3/t4 as a result of attenuated TSH production. It also may interact directly w/ mito CB1 receptors to repress mitochondrial complex 1 activity.. this may acutely and ephemerally decrease respiration rate. On the flip-side, it'll also decrease ROS prod, so it may be positive, depending (one of the reasons it's neuronally protective).
Interestingly, it inhibits neuronal NE release, yet induces sympathetic activation to very acutely augment metabolic rate & ventillation rate.. this may inhibit insulin secretion (apart from obvious direct CB1/CB2 direct transduction effects of decreasing intracellular Ca2+ induced exocytosis) . Seeing as how NPY will drive a strong CHO craving, this could cause some glucose intolerance, though I'm just surmising as to significance here. Logically flowing from SNS outflow, it also increases HR via impeding vagal tone, another aspect of a metabolic rate rise. Despite some of the potential noxious insulin perturbations, however, cannabis will inhibit 15-LOX, which has actually been shown to play an exorbitant role in obesity-induced beta cell destruction and diabetes development.

As far as direct adipocyte effects, it has potential to directly repress lipolysis via Gi coupled GPCR signaling which would decrease HSL, ATGL, and increase perilipin activation. It also may augment lipogenesis via SREBP induction, which then works through various lipogenic enzymes. However, I'm not sure if it's a direct activation or simply a reciprocal type of signaling (aka repression-activation & vice-versa).

Much of the effects seem to almost negate each other in terms of either increasing or decreasing metabolism via various mechanisms. This is much of the reason I'd say all in all - you're fine with pretty consistent use. I'd still advise against heavy use (ie multiple times per day, chronically) due to tentative deleterious ramifications and general neuronal issues that could occur over time (generally reversible but not worth the hassle). In either case, also given very robust homeostatic mechanisms employed by the body (much of the effects are likely simply a counterregulatory pathway), coupled with the highly ephemeral effects anyway, I'd say you're fine. It shouldn't have a bearing on weight loss apart from hyperphagia induced caloric excess.


Horyshet
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