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Feb 12 2010 08:27pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Feb 12 2010 09:13pm)
Doing explosive jumping squats are good...but WITHOUT weight. Adding weight makes this TREMENDOUSLY dangerous and deleterious to the muscles, ligaments, tendons, and soft tissue.


now just out of my curiosity, what is the rational behind this?

the reason i ask this is because i can't see how it would be much worse than the impact dealt when doing power cleans, power snatches, or even running or doing plyos with a weight vest?
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Feb 12 2010 09:03pm
Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Feb 12 2010 10:27pm)
now just out of my curiosity, what is the rational behind this?

the reason i ask this is because i can't see how it would be much worse than the impact dealt when doing power cleans, power snatches, or even running or doing plyos with a weight vest?



when you jump and LAND...the key is the landing....the weight will slam against the top of your spine (cervical) and cause crushing impact to the thorasic, lumbar, and sacral spine vertebrae. When you are doing cleans, snatches, or evening running...you are NOT jumping and causing all the weight to slam against your spinal column.

The initial crushing force by landing causes intense trauma to the vertebrae, discs, and even the nerves and soft tissue surrounding. It is highly ill-advised and not even close to doing a stationary movement or simple movement (where no jumping is involved).

If you decided to jump even without weight....the impact over time generates trauma to the spine. However, such little trauma is enough for the body to recover properly. But with added weight, especially at the top of the back, will cause a compounded effect thus generating enough force to cause serious injury and debilitating effects.
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Feb 12 2010 09:12pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Feb 12 2010 11:03pm)
when you jump and LAND...the key is the landing....the weight will slam against the top of your spine (cervical) and cause crushing impact to the thorasic, lumbar, and sacral spine vertebrae. When you are doing cleans, snatches, or evening running...you are NOT jumping and causing all the weight to slam against your spinal column.

The initial crushing force by landing causes intense trauma to the vertebrae, discs, and even the nerves and soft tissue surrounding. It is highly ill-advised and not even close to doing a stationary movement or simple movement (where no jumping is involved).

If you decided to jump even without weight....the impact over time generates trauma to the spine. However, such little trauma is enough for the body to recover properly. But with added weight, especially at the top of the back, will cause a compounded effect thus generating enough force to cause serious injury and debilitating effects.


Well to further my point I suppose (I am really not trying to argue, I just want to make sure we are on the same page), when you see anyone at a higher level doing cleans and snatches, they do jump off of the ground (very slight jump), but they drop underneath the weight to spread out the time of impact when they catch it. If you were to do a jump squat, but drop underneath the weight to lengthen the time of impact, wouldn't that be similar to olympic lifts in that sense? The only difference I can see between the two is that for a clean, the weight is impacted on the front of the body instead of the back.
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Feb 12 2010 09:15pm
Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Feb 12 2010 11:12pm)
Well to further my point I suppose (I am really not trying to argue, I just want to make sure we are on the same page), when you see anyone at a higher level doing cleans and snatches, they do jump off of the ground (very slight jump), but they drop underneath the weight to spread out the time of impact when they catch it. If you were to do a jump squat, but drop underneath the weight to lengthen the time of impact, wouldn't that be similar to olympic lifts in that sense? The only difference I can see between the two is that for a clean, the weight is impacted on the front of the body instead of the back.



ok lets make this very clear.

first of all the slight jump you are talking about for cleans also occur with the weight towards the front of the body resting on the front deltoids and upper chest...not on the back across the shoulders. This changes the weight distribution completely.

Secondly I never said power cleans or clean and jerks were SAFE for extended practice. To be very honest with you, all Olympic lifts are dangerous in varying degrees, especially when performed over time.

However, the single most damaging exercise is a jumping squat with the weight across the shoulders and back. This causes the most trauma and damage to the body.

If you don't like my answer, or would care to see alternate advice you are free to do so.
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Feb 12 2010 09:23pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Feb 12 2010 11:15pm)
ok lets make this very clear.

first of all the slight jump you are talking about for cleans also occur with the weight towards the front of the body resting on the front deltoids and upper chest...not on the back across the shoulders. This changes the weight distribution completely.

Secondly I never said power cleans or clean and jerks were SAFE for extended practice. To be very honest with you, all Olympic lifts are dangerous in varying degrees, especially when performed over time.

However, the single most damaging exercise is a jumping squat with the weight across the shoulders and back. This causes the most trauma and damage to the body.

If you don't like my answer, or would care to see alternate advice you are free to do so.


I guess I was just trying to understand the main difference. I was just having trouble wrapping my head around, so I apologize.

One last question to go along with this topic, if you don't mind. What is the relationship between controlled traumas (running, normal lifts, and explosive movements/lifts) and the adaption of bone (growth, increase/decrease in density, etc).
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Feb 13 2010 03:12am
Quote (bnrhodes2 @ Feb 12 2010 11:23pm)
I guess I was just trying to understand the main difference. I was just having trouble wrapping my head around, so I apologize.

One last question to go along with this topic, if you don't mind. What is the relationship between controlled traumas (running, normal lifts, and explosive movements/lifts) and the adaption of bone (growth, increase/decrease in density, etc).


over time, increased trauma to a specific area will degenerate bone in that area. However, this is not a direct result of trauma but rather because of the local soft tissue damage, the body diverts resources to repair those areas. As a result, the necessary minerals to support continued bone growth are temporarily suspended and can actually increase the onset of osteoporosis.

HOWEVER - there is an exception to this:

If you perform regular exercise and don't OVERWORK a certain area or cause significant trauma, it works in reverse. Bone health is actually shown to benefit from exercise when performed properly and regularly.

So essentially...if you feel like you're doing damage, you probably are. Also, bones do not adapt well to their environment as much as soft tissues do. Wrenching your body in an improper fashion or stacking too much weight against a certain area where muscles can not properly support the weight can result in hairline fractures which over time can get larger and eventually cause breaking.
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Feb 13 2010 11:48am
I heard too much water gives you psychosis?
Also, artificial sweeteners, should I be in chemotherapy or no worries
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Feb 13 2010 01:29pm
Hey SKC - The past month, I've gained roughly 5 pounds, part of which due to your help. When I get really sick, I don't eat much for obvious reasons like every other person.

I have a sore throat right now, plus two large ulcers on the left side of my mouth that are some of the most painful things I've ever had. I haven't been eating my norm lately.

Two part question(s) I suppose,

1. Are there any cure or ways to increase healing time to the ulcers?

2. What foods should I eat when these things happen (A sore throat + ulcers = miserable days)?
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Feb 13 2010 04:19pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Feb 13 2010 05:12am)
over time, increased trauma to a specific area will degenerate bone in that area. However, this is not a direct result of trauma but rather because of the local soft tissue damage, the body diverts resources to repair those areas. As a result, the necessary minerals to support continued bone growth are temporarily suspended and can actually increase the onset of osteoporosis.

HOWEVER - there is an exception to this:

If you perform regular exercise and don't OVERWORK a certain area or cause significant trauma, it works in reverse. Bone health is actually shown to benefit from exercise when performed properly and regularly.

So essentially...if you feel like you're doing damage, you probably are. Also, bones do not adapt well to their environment as much as soft tissues do. Wrenching your body in an improper fashion or stacking too much weight against a certain area where muscles can not properly support the weight can result in hairline fractures which over time can get larger and eventually cause breaking.


That's very interesting. I was never really sure how that worked. The first I ever thought about it was when I watched a short documentary thing on Paul and Craig Pumphrey ("human wrecking balls") which talked about some process where their bones adapted to the stress they put themselves through.

One last question on the jump squats as well if you don't mind. Would resistance bands be harmful, or is it just that any type of loading at all is detrimental to the body?
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Feb 13 2010 07:02pm
Quote (Honestly @ Feb 13 2010 01:48pm)
I heard too much water gives you psychosis?
Also, artificial sweeteners, should I be in chemotherapy or no worries



excessive water (such as drinking 1-2 gal in ONE SITTING) can kill you. Water toxicity is very real...it purges your body of all essential mineral and nutrients and causes psychosis and then death.

as far as artificial sweeteners....avoid them....they are connected to an increased risk of certain cancers...but I wouldn't be too afraid to enjoy a diet soda 2-3x a week.
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