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Nov 15 2017 12:04pm
The issue I have with a lot of Rhonda Patrick's stuff, at least the stuff I have heard, she mostly cites animal studies or more theory based work. I'd love to see long term applied studies on a lot of what she preaches. Her timed eating talk with Joe Rogan for example. Says mice who eat within a 12 hour window notice more muscle mass and endurance then she uses antectodal evidence saying " when I eat in a 12 hour window I feel way more endurance the next day", I'd love to see long term human studies on this
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Nov 15 2017 01:22pm
Quote (RewtheBrave @ Nov 15 2017 08:19am)
It's difficult to live long without access to modern medicine when you're fighting cave bears, mammoths, and giant elk.



I think excess consumption of saturated fat is bad, but so is overconsumption of refined simple sugars. Both are essentially empty calories. Eating too much of either will mess with your blood, clog your arteries, and ultimately kill you. The motivation for getting people to consume saturated fat and refined simple sugars is the same--it's cheap to produce and ship out to the world. Corn, soy, excess animal fat ... they're good money-makers and they're terrible for the environment.


People also forget about sodium and ingest too much of that which contributes to high blood pressure.

This post was edited by dark-soul on Nov 15 2017 01:46pm
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Nov 16 2017 12:11pm
Quote (dirTyMan @ Nov 15 2017 02:04pm)
The issue I have with a lot of Rhonda Patrick's stuff, at least the stuff I have heard, she mostly cites animal studies or more theory based work. I'd love to see long term applied studies on a lot of what she preaches. Her timed eating talk with Joe Rogan for example. Says mice who eat within a 12 hour window notice more muscle mass and endurance then she uses antectodal evidence saying " when I eat in a 12 hour window I feel way more endurance the next day", I'd love to see long term human studies on this


Good point. Much like everything else out there, it will just take time. There are drugs rushed to market based solely on animal studies/studies looking at other symptoms and shit in humans where it is justified solely on masking or treating other symptoms, creating a loophole. Interesting that goes without a second glance but contrarian views on diet is ridiculed

I think she is conducting similar studies with pregnant women, not with muscle mass but with window eating and other benefits so that. Could be interesting
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Nov 16 2017 01:56pm
I don't think sodium is as much an issue, except for those falling into the extremely sedentary lifestyles, plus extreme fat/sugar concentration in their diet and sodium.

I've always heard 1g sodium per 1kcal in your diet is a good reference. Also saw a similar ratio for water:bw but cant remember. Maybe like 1oz:1kg bw Idk.
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Nov 16 2017 02:20pm
Quote (BigDaddyGurk @ 15 Nov 2017 13:51)
No, actually, saturated fat =/= clogged arteries / plaque build up. That is general consensus now, even the outdated AHA is slowly coming around to that realization, it's just hard to implement/distribute information in a society structured as ours. I'm not saying eating 500g of saturated fat ed isn't bad for you; obviously everything needs to be taken in moderation. But what you're getting at is a very common misconception and I don't want to come off as rude here, but it's simply not correct.

Saturated fat + refined carbs/sugar is very bad, as seen with lots of fast food.

Increased fat consumption is much like the dietary cholesterol craze we saw with eggs when that was thought to be extremely unhealthy. Also sheds a little light on the misconceptions surrounding cholesterol. HDL/LDL isn't simply good/bad cholesterol, LDL technically isn't even cholesterol. Keto diets do show increases in HDL/LDL, but again, does not have a linear correlation so to speak with heart disease or plaque buildup etc.

I was listening to a guy named Chris Kesser iirc speaking, and he brought up the case of a hunter/gather population (chemani? spelling definitely off) in south america I believe, where they follow a predominantly keto based diet - high fats, mod protein, very low carb a.k.a what is naturally available - and one of the things shown in their population was a crazy difference in vascular health in comparison to those in western civilizations. Something like 80-90 year olds having the vascular health of 40-50 year olds, no plaque buildup at all, plus some other stuff I don't remember off the top of my head.


Those populations move. And there is a strong correlation between high consumption of saturated fats and clogged arteries. It's not the relationship everyone thought it was, but it's a real thing. I'm well aware of the recent surge of interest in the idea that saturated fat is healthy, just as I am aware of how lobbyists have pushed that information. I mean, you can probably find population studies showing that high consumption of simple carbs is the greatest thing ever, but I wouldn't want to turn that into a global position.

The only diet studies that have really interested me in terms of health are the studies related to high consumption of nutrient-dense plants. I'm not a vegetarian by any means, but those are the most interesting studies in diet.

Also, I'm not against short-term keto. I just don't like it as a long-term dietary strategy for optimal health. It's better if you're eating a lot of greens, but it still doesn't thrill me. If I had to choose between a high refined simple carb diet and a keto diet, I'll go with keto.
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Nov 16 2017 03:10pm
What are you saying the relationship is? Because the whole hdl/ldl argument i grew up hearing about turns out to not be true. Or rather aren't actually good indicators.

And what does it matter if those populations move? They are still good examples of how Hunter/gatherer ancestors would have been. What is the correlation between high sat fat and clogged arteries? I've only heard of it in combination with high sugar/carb diets.
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Nov 18 2017 08:55pm
Quote (dark-soul @ Nov 15 2017 03:22pm)
People also forget about sodium and ingest too much of that which contributes to high blood pressure.


its like 5mmhg m9
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Nov 18 2017 09:01pm
Quote (cloudkicker @ Nov 18 2017 08:55pm)
its like 5mmhg m9


Never heard a number placed on the effect of sodium so what’s your source?
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Nov 18 2017 09:19pm
Quote (dark-soul @ Nov 18 2017 11:01pm)
Never heard a number placed on the effect of sodium so what’s your source?


http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f1326

my number even includes the upper confidence interval
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Nov 18 2017 09:41pm
Quote (cloudkicker @ Nov 18 2017 09:19pm)
http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f1326

my number even includes the upper confidence interval


Interesting. According to that study sodium does impact blood pressure so a simple lifestyle change of reducing it to less than 2g/day could potentially bring someone down to normal levels. The study also says it reduces chance of stroke and fatal coronary heart disease.

This post was edited by dark-soul on Nov 18 2017 10:05pm
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