no, thats not what i said. what i said was that the biggest threat to health in america is the overconsumption of macronutrients in general (combined of course with a complete lack of meaningful physical activity), and overconsumption of macro nutrients can refer to the overconsumption of cho, lipids and/or proteins.



if your argument is that disease can be caused by poor micronutrient intake and therefore micronutrients are more important, thats a bad argument because the exact same can be said for macros. i could easily just reverse any of your arguments and still make very valid points about micros not being more important than macros. food is food and i wish yall would stop being so fucking nit picky about your fat pro cho ratios or your vit d superdosing. you need a normal amount of everything and thats it.

and to provide an actual counterargument in response to your nonsense, the reason macro intake is the biggest threat right now is that scurvy and dietary mineral deficiencies are not what's making america and the world obese, hypertensive, hyperglycemic, hyperlipidemic, hypoxic, cancer-ridden etc. the culprit is overfeeding. yall eat way more fucking food than you need and you dont do anything with that energy you get. nobody is fucking concerned about 99.7 percent of north america's vit C intake because almost nobody suffers from scurvy. 30-40 percent of america is obese and slowly dying.

true

My point was that diets focus on macros when they neglect to focus on micros. Most popular diets don't prevent or treat disease, they don't last, and they are mere band-aid solutions to problems which begin at the cellular level. I'm not arguing that eating too much isn't a problem. But I am saying that if you look at diseased populations, virtually none of the cohort who ate too much (which will be the majority) have attended to their micronutrient needs. I am also not saying that it's OK to be obese so long as you take care of your micros. The problem I'm raising is that if you take care of your macros but don't get proper micronutrition, you're not preventing disease, or, if you're sick, you're not helping yourself to get better.

I'm not arguing that macro overconsumption isn't a problem. I'm arguing that making bad choices and not attending to micronutrition is a huge problem. Most diets proselytized by the media, lobbyists, fitness industry based corporations, etc. don't help people make good choices about micronutrition, lifestyle, etc.. That is, they promote band-aid solutions and sell them on the premise that weight loss is the holy grail. Unfortunately, most people don't follow those diets for long and if they did, they'd still fall short of the mark where compression of morbidity and longevity are concerned just because they aren't being taught how to develop habits, make good choices, and take care of micronutrition.

What's missing from the "any macro breakdown diet is a good diet and only calories matter" perspective is, as I pointed out, that if every day you eat 1,400 calories from cookies made with sugar, lard, and collagen, you may as well sit on a couch as smoke every day, too. If you agree that's a bad diet, then you agree with the argument I've posited here. Anything else and you're attacking a straw man. If you think that's an ideal diet, then, unfortunately, we won't meet eye to eye on this.

This post was edited by RewtheBrave on Nov 2 2017 10:19pm

recommend starvation

same

Universal healthcare would be so much more affordable if it wasn’t for all the obesity

you have serious misconceptions about how much disease is caused by inadequate micronutrient intake. they play a role but what is causing disease is primarily an excessive caloric intake, secondarily not enough exercise and tertiarily a lack of specific vitamins and minerals



then fix your damned country

This post was edited by cloudkicker on Nov 5 2017 09:20pm

between lack of education at a young age and throughout schooling, proliferation of fast food chains and big ag and food conglomerates controlling both legislation and policy as well as reaping funding from govt, doctors and hospitals shilling surgery and medications via big pharm and the general ignorance of populations I don't think it will ever be at a place that could be seen as acceptable or positive

I understand the role that micronutrient deficiency plays in disease. Studies done on nonhuman animals, where macronutrient intake is fine but micronutrient intake is inadequate, show a high prevalence of disease and early death. In fact, I've read studies where animals went from heterosexual to homosexual due in part to insufficient micronutrient intake. In psychology, it is known that micronutrient intake can cause or worsen--or cure--various ailments. Of course, you've missed my point entirely. I wasn't saying that macronutrient intake isn't a factor. And you still haven't argued against the case I made about sugar, lard, and collagen, because you know it's correct.

There are different types of causes and you've also missed the point that the cause of disease in cases of too much macro intake is, at a deeper level, not at all related to food. It's related to ignorance, emotional distress, and bad habits. I am just widening the scope for what counts as a cause of disease because most diets fail to do so and thus fail to prevent people from getting sick and dying prematurely. If this weren't a massive problem, we wouldn't see so many people popping off. Millions of people have tried diets that restrict caloric intake and then found themselves fatter, sicker, and more likely to die sooner.

Show me someone with proper micronutrient intake that is sick and dying prematurely and I will show you someone who is unlucky. Show me someone who is perfectly healthy with improper micronutrient intake and proper macronutrient intake and I will show you someone who is lucky.

e: actually, try the sugar, lard and collagen diet for twenty years and let me know how it works out for you. On that note, may as well dehydrate it b/c lack of water won't hurt.

This post was edited by RewtheBrave on Nov 6 2017 12:24pm

I don't think you could hit a proper macro ratio with a diet of just sugar lard and collagen.