You say that you don't disregard concentric contraction but we might as well perform it at the best scenario which seems to be eccentric or isometric contraction according to you. So should I use concentric contraction or not to get the best possible results? When you say using at the best scenario this gives me the impression, (I might be wrong about that or misunderstand you) that it is best to train eccentric or isometric contraction but isometric contraction just feels totally different on my cardiovascular system. It feels like a slighter exhaustion that steadily rises. Not like with Squats, when I go down exhaustion is less, then mroe when it goes up and not so continuously which might have a totally different impact on our hormonal system. Maybe the impact of that isometric contraction is different. Better or maybe worse and in that case might not be the better option to train.

You said the variety is important in relation to routines and exercises but not methods. Aren't for example triceps exerciseS a bunch of different methods to use the motor units of the triceps in different ways. One triceps exercise might use 50% of motor units when doing our 1RM another one 90% of motor units. Still we are not doing that only single triceps exercise that involves the most motor units but use variety. I'm not convinced that using variety in terms of ecc, isom, and conc. contraction is not useful when our progress comes to an halt.

This post was edited by White_Light on Jan 18 2011 01:58am

Most of that is true except for one important thing. Just like someone training to increase his speed, lifting heavier weights requires speed as well. When it comes to the actual heavy lift, it follows the scheme (not volontarily) of 4 down 2 up, but the training behind it to achieve the weight is more like 3-4 down and 1 up, to acquire more power (rather than muscle "development").

Also, another important thing. If anyone has developped SIGNIFICANT muscle mass, you'll notice that without the aspect of power training (which alot of people seem to dismiss), your overall functionality in every day life is diminished. You can't throw a baseball as fast or do short outbursts of fast movements, simply because you've been training your muscles to contract at a slower pace.

Strength training gives you functionality and power rather than big flashy muscles, and its damn necessary. So slow tempos like 4 down 2 up can be good to develop mass, but that's it.

This post was edited by CMBurns on Jan 18 2011 02:11am

You would still say that 4second negative on every routine with every exercise would lead to stagnation in mass gains yes?

4 second negative is one of the basis's of GVT, and basically everyone(as in trainers/coaches who support it) recommends changing it after 2-3 months.

They're good for developing everything from strength to endurance. Any quicker timing would reduce effectiveness.

Assuming you follow general guidelines, every training you do over and over will lead to a plateau. 4 second negatives are very good, but if you want to increase your numbers, wasting less energy in the negative movement is important. Hence switching things up constantly.


My personal guidelines are like this (notice I said PERSONAL):

For increasing numbers:

Singles with 80-95% of 1RM, 2-3 seconds down, 1 second up.

1RMs are about 3 seconds down 2 seconds up.

During my cycles where I work on increasing numbers, I do various other strength trainings, including 4-6 seconds down with no "up" phase, etc

For mass:

Specific range of motions (unrelated)

2 seconds down, 1 second up.


So you see tempos tend to vary and that's only a small exemple of what I do. Saying 4 down 2 up is all that works isn't right, it just isn't technically wrong.



And not to be rude or anything, but slow movements increase your stability with the weights greatly, but they don't do much good increasing your overall strength. It'll work, just not as long or as fast as other ways would.

This post was edited by CMBurns on Jan 18 2011 02:26am

RM1 is indeed explosive power, the timing is suppose to be immediate (86% motoric unit force as a maximum humane ability) and tends to last 2-3 seconds.

I completely agree regarding everything explosive. However even in explosive exercises you should restrain a 2-3 second ratio, and not go less.

I see wannabe-mass builders do eccentric contractions for less than 1 second. That is simply wrong.

This post was edited by Synonym on Jan 18 2011 02:29am

Also, for your general curiosity:



Watch how he deadlifts when he's not working with 1RM. Fast up, controlled down. The fast up is very important.

4020 is good

but it seems you are suggesting to do it only and forever (along with isometric)?

No.
I've seen too many videos here of people showing how they perform, and they perform miserably. Your concentric contraction should never take longer than your eccentric contraction. So far the best I've seen is a guy who performs his eccentric contractions for 1 second. The rest didn't even bother and dropped the weight at each repetition.

As I said, 4/2 is a great ratio, but it doesn't hold true to RM1 where your timing should be immediate. Same goes for explosive exercises. As was said, 3/1 is a better ratio for all explosive exercises.

i was thinking and if my 1rm is 275lb on bench

i would perform the eccentric contraction 130% wld put me at like 357.xlbs rounded down to 355lbs. Now in my understanding this would only be if i was performing a 1 rep eccentric contraction...

if i wanted to do a set of eccentric contractions then i would simply increase my 5rep max by 130% to do 5 reps of eccentric contractions

amiright?