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Jan 7 2015 06:51pm
Quote (shane_is_a_balla @ Jan 8 2015 12:42am)
So much irony
I literally can't stop laughing


2 of those answer articles, destroying the one you cited about the 21 people, were published in the very same AGA journal
If you have a different point of view or concerns about that subject, or steroids, I'd like to hear them
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Jan 7 2015 07:11pm
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Jan 7 2015 07:12pm
Quote (Urbain @ Jan 7 2015 08:51pm)
2 of those answer articles, destroying the one you cited about the 21 people, were published in the very same AGA journal
If you have a different point of view or concerns about that subject, or steroids, I'd like to hear them


DESTROYING? LOL
WHAT A FUCKING DISHONEST THING TO SAY

I've read them both, they were quite succinct. They addressed issues with the study but did not "destroy" anything. They literally didn't even invalidate a single thing in the study.. do you actually know how to read or did someone just tell you about them?
Their scrutinization of the study was good, they essentially said what is already demonstrable if you read the original study - more studies with further statistical power is needed and they need to employ tests other than purely subjective measures. Sure, that's totally fine but that isn't destroying anything.

In fact, everything that the cannabis studies have found are completely expected based on every single piece of molecular & rodent data we have. Everything is congruent, yet you aim to dispute it. Makes sense, right? No. You seem to be an anti-cannabis bigot.
The use of cannabis was never even the main point of my initial post anyway, you're tergiversating my words. With your rather unlettered rant in a previous post you even reiterated my main concern of chronic corticosteroid use.. and you didn't even disagree with my pointing out the pathophysiology, nor their ability to worsen the sequela by attacking the same system. Obviously it will be effective to use ephemerally simply bc of being such a robust immunosuppressant you illiterate twat. What's especially concerning is your perennial troglodytic statements about ME giving out any type of false info or making an unsubstantiated claim of ANY sort. Now go away.

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Jan 7 2015 07:52pm
Quote (shane_is_a_balla @ Jan 8 2015 01:12am)
DESTROYING? LOL
WHAT A FUCKING DISHONEST THING TO SAY

I've read them both, they were quite succinct. They addressed issues with the study but did not "destroy" anything. They literally didn't even invalidate a single thing in the study.. do you actually know how to read or did someone just tell you about them?
Their scrutinization of the study was good, they essentially said what is already demonstrable if you read the original study - more studies with further statistical power is needed and they need to employ tests other than purely subjective measures. Sure, that's totally fine but that isn't destroying anything.

In fact, everything that the cannabis studies have found are completely expected based on every single piece of molecular & rodent data we have. Everything is congruent, yet you aim to dispute it. Makes sense, right? No. You seem to be an anti-cannabis bigot.
The use of cannabis was never even the main point of my initial post anyway, you're tergiversating my words. With your rather unlettered rant in a previous post you even reiterated my main concern of chronic corticosteroid use.. and you didn't even disagree with my pointing out the pathophysiology, nor their ability to worsen the sequela by attacking the same system. Obviously it will be effective to use ephemerally simply bc of being such a robust immunosuppressant you illiterate twat. What's especially concerning is your perennial troglodytic statements about ME giving out any type of false info or making an unsubstantiated claim of ANY sort. Now go away.


To me that's a claim :
Quote
there's plenty of evidence that cannabis has a ton of efficacy and amazing safety profile in treating Crohn's disease thus far. From what I remember, there's at least 2 I can think of, one using 20 some patients and another using 30 some (placebo controlled, etc) and the cannabis was well tolerated (obv) and the efficacy is wonderful.


And to me that makes it false, at least until we know more (for now a much, much more conservative point of view on the subject is the actual evidenced based conclusion on the subject) :
- Wasn't really double-blinded
- No valid conclusion can be made by the global score of thel scale used for measuring their secondary outcome (the only one with p0 making it worth to talk about), seperate parameters are a MUST
- Numerous biais were not taken into account and not disclaimed in the discussion section...
- Etc

You are making unstantiated claims and giving out false info

I'm super anti-weedisthemiraclesubstancetheworldiswaitingfor
I'm not anti-weed
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Jan 7 2015 08:37pm
Quote (Urbain @ Jan 7 2015 09:52pm)
To me that's a claim :


And to me that makes it false, at least until we know more (for now a much, much more conservative point of view on the subject is the actual evidenced based conclusion on the subject) :
- Wasn't really double-blinded
- No valid conclusion can be made by the global score of thel scale used for measuring their secondary outcome (the only one with p0 making it worth to talk about), seperate parameters are a MUST
- Numerous biais were not taken into account and not disclaimed in the discussion section...
- Etc

You are making unstantiated claims and giving out false info

I'm super anti-weedisthemiraclesubstancetheworldiswaitingfor
I'm not anti-weed


And that claim is backed up by evidence. I also agree more studies are definitely required.. but my claims aren't unsubstantiated on any level of things. On a molecular level, in terms of the effects of the CB1/2 receptors in the gut & nervous system, we have every reason to think the effect is greatly ameliorative for this condition. The preliminary data in the studies indeed corroborates this, that's something you can't even come close to dismissing. Moreover, there's literally hundreds to thousands of anecdotes online. I'm not one to put credence into anecdotes, but there's an exorbitant number of positive reports with clinical check-ups. Beyond that, I'm not even suggesting cannabis could be used on its own. It's likely it may just help in terms of mitigating side effects via utilizing far lower doses of other drugs (though obv not corticosteroids).

Again, your critiques are laughable bc literally everything is congruent and you're still choosing to disagree based on pure conjecture (a lot less than that actually) when there's no realistic reason to.
As for your last statement, you seem more like an anti-cannabis bigot, but beyond hippies and conspiracy theorists I'm pretty sure no one thinks cannabis is a miracle substance
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Jan 7 2015 09:01pm
Quote (shane_is_a_balla @ Jan 8 2015 02:37am)
And that claim is backed up by evidence. I also agree more studies are definitely required.. but my claims aren't unsubstantiated on any level of things. On a molecular level, in terms of the effects of the CB1/2 receptors in the gut & nervous system, we have every reason to think the effect is greatly ameliorative for this condition. The preliminary data in the studies indeed corroborates this, that's something you can't even come close to dismissing. Moreover, there's literally hundreds to thousands of anecdotes online. I'm not one to put credence into anecdotes, but there's an exorbitant number of positive reports with clinical check-ups. Beyond that, I'm not even suggesting cannabis could be used on its own. It's likely it may just help in terms of mitigating side effects via utilizing far lower doses of other drugs (though obv not corticosteroids).

Again, your critiques are laughable bc literally everything is congruent and you're still choosing to disagree based on pure conjecture (a lot less than that actually) when there's no realistic reason to.
As for your last statement, you seem more like an anti-cannabis bigot, but beyond hippies and conspiracy theorists I'm pretty sure no one thinks cannabis is a miracle substance


You seem to have an optimistic point of view about the subject and I guess a realistic one, all things considered, when you say things like more studies are definitely required. That's super okay.
I suggest you look back to those posts in a few years, if you get in medschool and what not (even if you don't)
By that time I think you'll realize the blind trust people put into some claims they've seen on the internet, things their friends have said and etc.
Words being typed right now can have more impact than you think, and that can be used for good.
I'm never in a million years assuming you are trying to missguide the op or anyone else, but that's what you could be doing.

I'm a little touchy about the subject because I've seen people go through hell, living their last weeks in pain, dying months before what could have been offered to them because of false claims and "promising natural alternatives".
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Jan 7 2015 09:45pm
Quote (Urbain @ Jan 7 2015 04:33pm)
You indirectly recommand he stops his treatment and moves on to the unproven treatment of cannabis.
On that note, I strongly suggest you read the study or at least bother to read the various replies made to it in Gastro-Hepato journals (if you can't find them, let me know I'll pubmeb some for you). This study is horrible, poorly done and has no scientific value at all, *none*. It contributes, like you, to the spread of possibly dangerous (or at least wrong) information.

One of the first thing someone prescribing corticosteroids has in mind is "When the fuck can I stop giving those to me patient plz".
Corticosteroids have thousands of side effects on about every system and organs in the body, and when they are use in a chronic way it's a million times worst.
They are remission agents and are never used to maintain (except in severe, beyond last resort cases). Commenting on how you feel they worsen the disease is pointless and it is a piece of information that can easily be miss-used by many.

What you say on the Internets can have some serious implications, primum non nocere


send me some

Quote (Braxton11 @ Jan 7 2015 05:14am)
Unfortunately for me, my intestines are super inflamed at the moment and there is massive amounts of blood in my stools. The pain is almost to the point of when I was first diagnosed with it.

Trust me, I don't want to be on the corticosteroids, but unfortunately for me there is no other option at the moment. Especially with school like 3 weeks away and I missed last semester because I didn't want to go on prednisone. Not missing another semester.

I know it is terrible for my body in basically every way. What I want to know is how bad it is for me to continue lifting while on them and if I could actually injure/do more harm to myself by lifting instead of just stopping and waiting to get off of the corticosteroid.


Corticosteroids make you immunocompromised (kill your immunity, because they inhibit any immune response causing generalized inflammation) + catabolic effects + diarrhea = massive catabolism in your body and it could be potentially fatal, so my opinion is NO, you should not continue any stressful exercise because it's causing more damage than good.

What exactly were you diagnosed with, Ulcerative Colitis, Chron's, or what? What did your blood work show?

Did the doctor even suspect a parasite (eosiniphilia + anemia) in your blood work?

Did you have any diagnostic procedure done or not?

This post was edited by ViviLOL on Jan 7 2015 09:55pm
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Jan 7 2015 09:58pm
Ask your doctor about Infliximab OP, if he has ruled out a parasitic infection...
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Jan 8 2015 01:21pm
Quote (ViviLOL @ Jan 7 2015 11:45pm)
send me some



Corticosteroids make you immunocompromised (kill your immunity, because they inhibit any immune response causing generalized inflammation) + catabolic effects + diarrhea = massive catabolism in your body and it could be potentially fatal, so my opinion is NO, you should not continue any stressful exercise because it's causing more damage than good.

What exactly were you diagnosed with, Ulcerative Colitis, Chron's, or what? What did your blood work show?

Did the doctor even suspect a parasite (eosiniphilia + anemia) in your blood work?

Did you have any diagnostic procedure done or not?


I was diagnosed in October 2009 with ibd, because at the time they did the colonoscopy, I was too inflamed for them to even get halfway. I've had 5+ colonoscopies and my doctor is leaning more towards ulcerative colitis, although from my understanding, crohns and ulcerative colitis are more or less the same thing, just different areas of the intestines.

I've done tests where I drink barium and then get screened, bone density scans, and other stuff.

My doctor brought up remicade (the one you're talking about) and humira. From my understanding, they are basically the same thing, except the remicade is a transfusion where I have to waste 2 hours of my life like every 6 weeks and humira is a shot that I have to do every 2 weeks. Once the insurance has mercy on me, I plan on going on the humira.

Also is there a way to stop the catabolic effects or I should say reduce them at least.
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Jan 9 2015 12:44am
Quote (Braxton11 @ Jan 8 2015 11:21am)
I was diagnosed in October 2009 with ibd, because at the time they did the colonoscopy, I was too inflamed for them to even get halfway. I've had 5+ colonoscopies and my doctor is leaning more towards ulcerative colitis, although from my understanding, crohns and ulcerative colitis are more or less the same thing, just different areas of the intestines.

I've done tests where I drink barium and then get screened, bone density scans, and other stuff.

My doctor brought up remicade (the one you're talking about) and humira. From my understanding, they are basically the same thing, except the remicade is a transfusion where I have to waste 2 hours of my life like every 6 weeks and humira is a shot that I have to do every 2 weeks. Once the insurance has mercy on me, I plan on going on the humira.

Also is there a way to stop the catabolic effects or I should say reduce them at least.


You had a barium meal taken to check for any gastric or intestinal obstruction.
Chron's and UC are 2 completely different diseases.
To stop the catabolic effects of corticosteroids...well first of all it makes you immunocompromised making you more prone to certain infections, so I suggest you stick to taking a multivitamin + vitamin C + a high protein diet + constant fluid/electrolytes. That's my best guess/suggestion, unless you have symptoms of malabsorption then that's different.
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