no no and no

I like Cinnamon Toast Crunch, so I should good

Dear Raynor,

I was cleaning out my gym locker today, before the Winter break, and I found a really old bottle of Jack3d that dates back to like May.

I'd only taken like 2-3 scoops out of it before I buried it in there.

Here's the thing, when I opened it today, the whole thing was grodalated and yellow with crustyfucknasty.

(Yes, those are highly scientific technical chemistry terms)

So, being as it still smelled normal, I examined the ingredients and saw that the only anti-humidity agent in there is silicon dioxide, (which in powdered form reaches it's saturation point quickly)

so I'm pretty sure that the crusty nasty crap is simply re-crystallized sucralose, with the color coming from the citric acid.

If this assumption is correct, then there's nothing wrong with me mixing this (icky-looking) stuff up and drinking it still. ($30 is a lot of money to waste.)

I asked my Lab Professor about it, and his response was just "if it doesn't look right, then don't drink it."

Fuck that. I will not be deterred. With the above as background info, I have a few questions I'd like to run by you, Sir:

1. Have you ever heard of anyone getting sick from drinking old Jack3d?

2. Given your chemistry/supplement/medical background, do you (at least mostly) agree with my assumption? (ingredients copypasta'd below)

3. Is there anything else in the ingredient list that may have reacted with another ingredient, or would be likely to have been significantly denatured by exposure to moisture or air?
(This is really the Crux of my question, the Arginine Alpaha-Ketoglutarate may be denatured due to the 3 ketone groups, possibly weaking the "NO effect", but I doubt it will make me sick.)

LOL - Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions Raynor. I appreciate that fact that you respond to ghetto-ass questions like mine with scholarly professionalism. You will make a good doctor some day.

Thx- invisiblehand

Jack3d Ingredients:
1 Scoop (5.55 grams)

Proprietary Blend 4145mg* ( Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate, Creatine Monohydrate, Beta Alanine, Caffeine, 1,3-Dimethylamylamine (Geranium [Stem]), Schizandrol A)

Other Ingredients: Citric Acid, Natural Lemon-Lime Flavor, Acesulfame-K, Sucralose, Vegetable Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Chlorophyll (For Coloring).

OMG. ^ I meant to say "3 carbonyl C's" not "3 ketone groups" There's only 1 ketone group, with 2 carboylates. My prof would kill me.

facepalm.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha-Ketoglutaric_acid

EDIT: I also wanted to make sure I let you know up front that even though my question is simultaneously complicated and kinda stupid, I'm not trying to like "test" you or anything. Lightman was acting like a complete dipshit the other day, I'm just trying to save thirty bucks.

This post was edited by invisiblehand on Nov 30 2011 01:59am

See a doctor immediately, get bloodwork done. Tell him about the extremely slow wound healing issue and have him check for diabetes, as well as infections and other diseases. If you turn out to be negative for everything, use this list...

1. Do you take aspirin or other blood thinners regularly? If not, next.
2. Do have any known heart problems? If not, next.
3. Do you take any supplements/medications? If so, what are they - and next.
4. Do you eat enough protein (1g / lb body weight) and drink enough water (1gal + per day)? If so, next.
5. Do you do any drugs or drink alcohol excessively, or smoke excessively? If not, next.
6. Do you have poor blood circulation because of an injury or illness?

If NO to all of those, you need to see a wound care specialist.

Hey there. First of all let me say I really enjoyed reading your post. You got quite a few chuckles out of me and set the tone for a good start of the day. Thank you for that.

Anyway, to answer your questions properly - here is my assumptions.

First of all, I do NOT like jack3d or any other pre-workout supp. Most of the "rush" you get is from caffeine and beta-a. The amount of arginine means virtually nothing because of the caffeine. The effects of caffeine are as a vasoconstrictor and the effects of arginine is vasodialation. Thus you have two substances working in opposite directions thus minimizing the effects of both. The biggest player in that jack3d soup is the beta-a which makes you tingle. The giddy and "focused" feel from the Jack3d is from the Schizandrol A. However, for about 1/10 the cost you can take pure caffeine with water and buzz around the gym like a bee on honeycrack. Enough about my hatred for overpriced pre-workout supps.

1. I have seen people get sick from drinking OLD protein supps and OLD pre-workout supps - but not Jack3d in particular. They never died though, mostly just nausea and diarrhea. Those can be lots of fun at the gym
2 & 3. Yes you COULD be right about the sucralose crystalizing and being tinted yellow from the citric acid. However, there are other explanations as well - less likely - but still explanations. I don't know enough about Schizandrol or Geranium in powder form to comment on what can happen when those denature. However if the arginine denatures it would never get you sick...more like no effect at all. It is of my OFFICIAL CLINICAL OPINION that you should NOT drink it. It is of my UNOFFICIAL GYM MONKEY OPINION that drinking it will imbue you with special powers that will grant you the ability to eat rusty nails and drop iron clad 45 lb plate deuces in return. Translation - I would rather you didn't drink it, but if you do it probably wont hurt you.





Saving $30 is certainly a good idea. I'll do you a favor and save you countless other $30's - don't buy pre-workouts!! Stick to caffeine.

This post was edited by SKCRaynor on Nov 30 2011 02:16am

Alrighty then! I'lll give it a shot tomorrow, and then I'll post up here about how it goes.

Do you think the nails would go better with brown rice, or Pita? (J/k )

BTW, on the pre-workout supps, what do you think of 5 hour energy? Personally, I -LOVE- that stuff! I buy them in bulk boxes and I drink one almost every day.

I would totally draw that shit up in a syringe and inject it into my dick if it wasn't such a completely stupid idea. (5 HOURS?... hmm still tempted...)

I think the chemistry around synthetic B-12 is AMAZING and AWESOME. IMO, the fact that it's got CYANIDE and COBALT in it's core just makes it even cooler to me. (They can't get out, the molecule is built to fold in on itself and neutralize the toxic shit )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanocobalamin

Anyway, what do you think about 5 Hr Energy?

(BTW... totally kidding about the injection thing. I felt obligated to clarify because I'm sure you've heard worse )

What would you consider to be good arm growth for someone thats in the ending stages of beginner lifting? Ive gotten a little over 1/2inch and im wondering how long i can expect to get gains like this

Thanks for this. Will def try it next chest workout after a week layoff

This post was edited by LoveMeansNothing on Nov 30 2011 12:00pm

lmao. Always a pleasure reading your posts.

Anyway, yes 5 hour energy is fine more or less. B12 + caffeine is definitely good stuff. It's just expensive compared with caffeine and b12 powder mixed with water on your own.

Anyway,