lol owned. good stuff though, i need to start checking this thread more often...

You actually will take 100% pure fiber in the form of phylum husk and mix it with whey protein shakes. It sucks because of the grit, but its 100% insoluble fiber that will not have any carb impact on the body ;-)

How do you feel about fat burners? I was gonna pm you but I thought it'd be better to post it here since there may be people wondering about them too.
I haven't used any since I don't know if they actually will help or if they won't and you'll be addicted to it.

Thanks very much as always

I was trying to engage in a friendly debate... undermining you was the last thing on my mind. This is the d2jsp forum, what reason would I have to undermine you? To steal your clients? That you help for free? That's ridiculous.

It's pretty obvious you have some type of issue with your ego. Also -- you may need to throw your degrees around when you're trying to get a job, but in a discussion of pure sports nutrition, that honestly doesn't mean anything. You reference the fact that you are a med student... how does that apply here? You studied science... okay? If this mattered, the most successful trainers/nutritionists/bodybuilders would have PhDs and this simply is not the case. Doctors are taught the bare minimum when it comes to nutrition. They aren't taught how to get a guy from 200 to 275 or diet someone from 12% to 3% bodyfat. They are taught what they need to know -- and nothing more.

I know you enjoy helping people on this site because, along with maybe actually enjoying helping people, it's pretty much competition-free. You don't expect anyone to challenge any of your ideas and you just made that obvious my responding with a full fledge rant to my simple post, maturely presenting my perspective. Is this thread just another way to feed your ego? If not, then start acting like it.

Allow me to address what you posted:

"First of all, the supplement, nutrition, and bodybuilding business (especially the major publications) are constant contradictions of themselves. I am currently at the University of Miami Medical School studying general surgery, followed by a residency in trauma surgery. My BS degree is in nutrition and biology - I have been a trainer for many years. I have studied all of these things from not only a personal level, but from the scientific level as well."

1. I already addressed the fact that your degrees and that fact that you're a med student doesn't have any value in this realm.
2. Being a trainer says absolutely nothing -- do you see the majority of trainers today? Pathetic.

"10-20g simple sugar (if the body has been fasting for at least 3 hours - which is generally the case when you just get done working out...if it isn't the case, you've done something wrong) is MORE than adequate to spike insulin levels in the body enough to cause an anabolic reaction with the incoming protein and other macro nutrient matrix.

The misconception that Dextrose in the 50-100g margin has been a marketing ploy for companies selling post-workout drinks since the 1980s. If you don't believe me, get a glucometer and test your blood sugar post-workout without eating/drinking anything other than water. Then check it 15-20 minutes after taking 10-20g of simple sugar. Now compare this to taking 80g dextrose. You will find that although 80g does in fact grant a higher sugar - exponetially it is very slight, and thus virtually useless by comparison"

Okay, going by your logic, I should drink 10-20g simple sugar. Okay done, my insulin is now spiked. With what am I going to replenish my muscle glycogen? Protein? Let's be serious, please don't reference what "Mr. Florida" did because honestly he may have been on gear and that would mean anything would work post-workout. On that note -- anything really can work postworkout. As long as you have nutrients after you workout, you're good to go. But as far as what's optimal... that's a different story. Also, I enjoyed the fact that you said "here is the scientific proof" yet you cited no studies and continued with our FALSE speculation and anecdotal (Mr. Florida) experiences. I know someone who got ripped and huge eating nothing but McDonalds. Does this mean I should have Big Macs all day? ...

I thought you were an open-minded person willing to engage in productive debate. It seems I was wrong. Continue on with your fan base. Your ego and this "aura of superiority" you exude is just ridiculous and very laughable.

This post was edited by Rucka on Apr 2 2009 09:57pm

To argue with you is insanity at this point.

Let's clarify a few things.

I received a Bachelor's degree in NUTRITION, and a bachelor's degree in BIOLOGY - that's two degrees in which my studying was directly at understand the human body and how substances effect it, etc.

Medical school (while it doesn't teach you much about nutrition) does teach you a lot about how the human body works and what makes what part of the body react in what way.


With that in mind - your debate was not a debate at all, but you coming here trying to tell me how things should be done - your words exactly were that you know of a better way to do things. The smart thing is to ASK me my opinion - rather than try to show that you must know what you're talking about - because you do not.


Next, I also went into explaining to you that I have been in this field for over a decade. My experience has been far beyond that of any other student of nutrition, science, or fitness that I have ever met. I dedicate my life to these things, and I spend my time researching, testing through trial and error, and helping others. I literally do not do anything else.


My last comment will be in regards to glycogen, which apparently you decided to end the topic with...

You are not taking simple sugar post workout to simply replenish muscle glycogen...but rather to spike insulin to increase protein synthesis as well. The result is muscle tissue that is able to suck up more nutrients in a shorter period of time, thus immediately preventing catabolism and switching the body to an anabolic environment.


80+ grams of any sugar after a workout is only acceptable if you are on a hard bulking cycle and you do not care about fat gain. The results will be negligible compared to the lower sugar amount.


You did not come here asking to debate anything - you came here, shooting off your mouth trying to tell me how things are done, and that your way is better - instructing me - as if you have 1/10 the experience that I have.

I must say that I am completely insulted. Had you come and asked me a question, or requested a friendly debate...or even just PM'd me...I would have taken it differently. But instead, you basically try to undermine me on a thread where I do nothing but help people constantly. Totally uncalled for.


I have more than enough things to worry about, without having to have a debate - I get enough of that in school, at work, at in what little personal life I have.

I have come to have very little tolerance for belligerence and do not like to be challenged just because someone feels it necessary.

If you think that you can handle this thread better than I, or that your advice is better, or your credentials and achievements are more noteworthy than me - be my guest and ask everyone if they'd like to have you instead.

If not - discussion over.

depends on the product - but one thing is fairly static with all/most of them - Caffeine.

Although most fat burners incorporate herbs, vitamins, aminos, or other ingredients to add with the caffeine - the caffeine itself is more than adequate as a "fat burner"...but these extra additives give your body a slight advantage to caffeine alone.

Of the best products I have used - GAT Jet Fuel is probably the best fat burner on the market.


To use properly, take 2-3 in the morning on an empty stomach with a lot of water (at least 18 oz) - do not eat for 30-45 minutes. At this point, you are virtually re-creating morning cardio without the actual activity. You will burn quite a bit of fat from doing this, and can expect to see between 1/2-1lb of fat burned per week more than without.

In addition, you can take 2-3 pills during the day on an empty stomach or before a workout (again with a lot of water) - however be sure to take BCAA's throughout the day as well to prevent muscle catabolism.

You've got ONE thing right: this is insanity.

Here you go... with ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC STUDIES CITED.

"Back when it first came out, whey protein was pretty kick ass because it was discovered to be very high quality. Then research came out that made it even more kick ass, because we could classify it as a "fast" digesting protein compared to casein (Boirie et al., 1997).

You know what? This research stands today, because compared to casein, whey protein really is fast! Then again, a tortoise is also fast compared to a snail, but that doesn’t mean we want to take a tortoise to a greyhound park. In other words, we’ve been considering whey a "fast" protein only because we’ve been comparing it to something incredibly slow. When we compare the digestibility of whey to the gold standard of amino acids, on which we base nearly all of our post workout nutritional data, whey flat out sucks.

This is incredibly frustrating because all of the ways to maximize protein synthesis we’ve been discussing have used amino acids. So we need to either use pure amino acids or use something that closely resembles their absorptive properties. This is where whey protein hydrolysate comes in. The protein is already broken up into large peptides, so we get a rapid absorption with peak levels reaching the blood at around 80 minutes (Calbet and MacLean, 2002), compared to 60 minutes for pharmaceutical grade amino acids (Borsheim et al., 2002).

Unfortunately, even the highly touted whey isolate is completely useless for our timing purposes here, because it just takes too long to get taken up by the gut (Dangin et al., 2002). This is all discussed in more detail in the official product review of Surge, complete with graphs of blood amino acid profiles: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459463

In light of these data and the growing body of literature contradicting the versatility and usefulness of whey protein, it should henceforth be classified as "moderate" or "intermediate" speed protein, with only whey hydrolysate and amino acids existing as truly "fast."

It may be difficult to adjust our thinking, but this is simply more dogma that needs to be destroyed in order to bring us up to date with the proper application of research."

From www.t-nation.com


References:

1. Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8

2. Asp S, Daugaard JR, Kristiansen S, Kiens B, Richter EA. Eccentric exercise decreases maximal insulin action in humans: muscle and systemic effects. J Physiol. 1996 Aug 1;494 ( Pt 3):891-8.

3. Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.

4. Borsheim E, Tipton KD, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Essential amino acids and muscle protein recovery from resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Oct;283(4):E648-57.

5. Calbet JA, MacLean DA. Plasma glucagon and insulin responses depend on the rate of appearance of amino acids after ingestion of different protein solutions in humans. J Nutr. 2002 Aug;132(8):2174-82.

6. Child R, Brown S, Day S, Donnelly A, Roper H, Saxton J. Changes in indices of antioxidant status, lipid peroxidation and inflammation in human skeletal muscle after eccentric muscle actions. Clin Sci (Lond). 1999 Jan;96(1):105-15.

7. Childs A, Jacobs C, Kaminski T, Halliwell B, Leeuwenburgh C. Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise. Free Radic Biol Med. 2001 Sep 15;31(6):745-53.

8. Coggins M, Lindner J, Rattigan S, Jahn L, Fasy E, Kaul S, Barrett E. Physiologic hyperinsulinemia enhances human skeletal muscle perfusion by capillary recruitment. Diabetes. 2001 Dec;50(12):2682-90.

9. Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Fauquant J, Callier P, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 280: E340-E348, 2001

10. Dangin M, Guillet C, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Bouteloup-Demange C, Reiffers-Magnani K, Fauquant J, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. The rate of protein digestion affects protein gain differently during aging in humans. Physiol. 2003 Jun 1;549(Pt 2):635-44.

11. Esmarck B, Andersen JL, Olsen S, Richter EA, Mizuno M, Kjaer M. Timing of postexercise protein intake is important for muscle hypertrophy with resistance training in elderly humans. J Physiol. 2001 Aug 15;535(Pt 1):301-11.

12. Fujitani J, Higaki Y, Kagawa T, Sakamoto M, Kiyonaga A, Shindo M, Taniguchi A, Nakai Y, Tokuyama K, Tanaka H. Intravenous glucose tolerance test-derived glucose effectiveness in strength-trained humans. Metabolism. 1998 Jul;47(7):874-7.

13. Goldfarb AH, Bloomer RJ, McKenzie MJ. Combined antioxidant treatment effects on blood oxidative stress after eccentric exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2005 Feb;37(2):234-9.

14. Ivy JL, Katz AL, Cutler CL, Sherman WM, Coyle EF. Muscle glycogen synthesis after exercise: effect of time of carbohydrate ingestion. J Appl Physiol. 1988 Apr;64(4):1480-5.

15. Koopman R, Manders RJ, Zorenc AH, Hul GB, Kuipers H, Keizer HA, van Loon LJ. A single session of resistance exercise enhances insulin sensitivity for at least 24 h in healthy men. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2005 May;94(1-2):180-7.

16. Lee J, Goldfarb AH, Rescino MH, Hegde S, Patrick S, Apperson K. Eccentric exercise effect on blood oxidative-stress markers and delayed onset of muscle soreness. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2002 Mar;34(3):443-8.

17. Levenhagen DK, Gresham JD, Carlson MG, Maron DJ, Borel MJ, Flakoll PJ. Postexercise nutrient intake timing in humans is critical to recovery of leg glucose and protein homeostasis. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Jun;280(6):E982-93.

18. Louis M, Poortmans JR, Francaux M, Berre J, Boisseau N, Brassine E, Cuthbertson DJ, Smith K, Babraj JA, Waddell T, Rennie MJ. No effect of creatine supplementation on human myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis after resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Nov;285(5):E1089-94.

19. MacDougall JD, Gibala MJ, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDonald JR, Interisano SA, Yarasheski KE. The time course for elevated muscle protein synthesis following heavy resistance exercise. Can J Appl Physiol. 1995 Dec;20(4):480-6.

20. Miller WJ, Sherman WM, Ivy JL. Effect of strength training on glucose tolerance and post-glucose insulin response. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1984 Dec;16(6):539-43.

21. Pascoe DD, Costill DL, Fink WJ, Robergs RA, Zachwieja JJ. Glycogen resynthesis in skeletal muscle following resistive exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1993 Mar;25(3):349-54.

22. Peterson JM, Trappe TA, Mylona E, White F, Lambert CP, Evans WJ, Pizza FX. Ibuprofen and acetaminophen: effect on muscle inflammation after eccentric exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Jun;35(6):892-6.

23. Phillips SM, Tipton KD, Aarsland A, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. Mixed muscle protein synthesis and breakdown after resistance exercise in humans. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E99-107.

24. Phillips SM, Parise G, Roy BD, Tipton KD, Wolfe RR, Tamopolsky MA.
Resistance-training-induced adaptations in skeletal muscle protein turnover in the fed state. Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 2002 Nov;80(11):1045-53.

25. Rasmussen, BB, Tipton KD, Miller SL, Wolf SE, and Wolfe RR. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol 88: 386-392, 2000

26. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206

27. Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR. Acute response of net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and amino acid ingestion. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E76-89.

28. Trappe TA, Fluckey JD, White F, Lambert CP, Evans WJ. Skeletal muscle PGF(2)(alpha) and PGE(2) in response to eccentric resistance exercise: influence of ibuprofen acetaminophen. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Oct;86(10):5067-70.

29. Trappe TA, White F, Lambert CP, Cesar D, Hellerstein M, Evans WJ.
Effect of ibuprofen and acetaminophen on postexercise muscle protein synthesis. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2002 Mar;282(3):E551-6.









If you want to name drop "Mr. Florida" I'll name drop too.

Justin Harris -- if you don't know who this is, that's pretty bad for a "professional". Just to name a few accomplishments that man is the 2007 NPC Junior National Bodybuilding Champion (trumps Mr. Florida). He totals almost 3x your total and weighs 50 more pounds than you when you're bulking at a lower body fat%

He recommends pwo almost exactly what I said.

www.elitefts.com check it out

get educated. don't be so close-minded that you can't adapt to what's actually working in this field. 10 years of experience means nothing if you've been doing it wrong all along (as far as pwo is concerned)


I'll leave you alone now, granted, I know you'll probably respond with DEGREE and NUTRITION and BIOLOGY capitalized again as if I'm stupid. Well that's just your B.S. (if you know what I mean)

First of all, epic failure with citing sources without page numbers. By doing that, you are basically saying that you want the reader to trust what you say...without any proof that the evidence is contained therein. Provide page numbers, or do not try to cite sources at all.

Anyone can google books/articles/periodicals/etc on a topic and say "the earth is flat (Marks, 2001)." - page numbers or don't cite.


next up - if you would have listened in the first place, you wouldn't have wasted so much of your time....first off you fail to even understand the basis of my plan and explaination which centers around the constant BCAA's before, during, and right after a workout which is INFINITELY superior to your mass-loading of bcaa and individual aminos at the end of a workout.

Reason: BCAA's before/during/after keeps a constant flow of these aminos to the muscles during training - therefore the timing is better than 80,60,30,10, or even 1 minute....they are constantly there - a steady flow. Sorry champ but you really need to read everything I say before you try to kick back with your stupidity again.


Secondly..your argument against post-workout whey isolate is that it is very slow, and only fast compared to casein...and therefore individual aminos should be consumed instead...this is horribly inaccurate, and I demand to see what source you found this exact explanation at...I am venturing to guess you made it up and cited a source afterward.

Whey isolate takes between 15-30 minutes to digest. Liquid OTC Aminos take approximately 15-25 minutes to digest. If you take into consideration how much liquid amino would be required to take in order to provide the same benefits of the whey, we are going FAR beyond cost benefit. In addition, we are not talking about injectable aqueous-suspension pharmaceutical grade aminos which would have a near instantaneous absorption time...as this is impractical, dangerous, and expensive.

So the basic plan is this.

2g BCAA before, every 45 mins during exercise, and immediately after, followed up by approx 40g whey protein isolate and 10-20g simple sugar usually from fruit (grape juice is ideal) to spike insulin and allow uptake of the protein to the muscle groups much faster and more effective.


Your arguments fail to disprove or even counter-balance my original plan.


Also, I really like something else.

You decided to post 29 resources for approx. 10 sentences - most of which is theoretical or opinion. You didn't even use these sources...hell you probably have never even read one of those sources ...


as a matter of fact...after a quick google...YOU PLAGIARIZED ALL OF THOSE RESOURCES AND THAT INFORMATION FROM A FORUM!!!
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/nutrition-supplements-forum/top-10-post-workout-134241012.html


Not only are you an arrogant, antagonizing, waste of time - who has no idea what he's talking about....YOU RIP OFF ALL OF YOUR "EVIDENCE" FROM A MESO-RX FORUM MEMBER!!!


This astounds me. next time you try to come off as a brilliant sage, who knows everything about post-workout nutrition and the biology of the human body in relation to aminos and uptake...please at least TRY to do your OWN research, and not rip off some guy on the internet - who also probably ripped off most of his sources.


And now lets wrap it up with a little talk about Justin Harris. You want to prove your point because ONE bodybuilder that you have read an article about (who also owns Troponin Nutrition) says some of the things that you happen to agree with unconditionally. First off, if one of the MANY bodybuilders that I lift with (or have lifted with) are "taking gear" - very easily so could your famed Justin Harris. So lets not get off topic.

Before I even continue, lets get a few things straight. I am not a pro-card bodybuilder. I am a professional in the sport of bodybuilding, power lifting, nutrition, fitness, anatomy/physiology, and biology. I lift as a hobby, not as a professional. Please name one bodybuilder you know that also attends medical school and works (which totals to 80 hours per week!). Exactly. So before you try to start comparing me to people, understand this, I never once tried to say that I was the best 191 lb (bulked) bodybuilder there is...I never once said there were others who aren't bigger, stronger, faster, or better than me in the sport - there are TONS. However, not one of them goes to med school, or helps people online free of charge, or dedicates themselves to their clients at work.

First off he weighs over 280lbs off season. That is nearly 100 lbs more than me in my off season....not 50 lbs as you stated. (as bad at math as you are at researching things on your own?)

In addition, he has several years of age more than me as well, muscle maturity is an important factor here.

Moreover, his lifts are the following @ 280 lbs.

876lb squat (313% squat)
573lb bench (204% bench)
700lb deadlift (250% deadlift)

(source: http://insidebodybuilding.***/2007/05/brand-new-bodybuildingprocom-interview.html)


if you insist on comparing, here are mine @ 190 lbs.

455 squat ATG (223% squat)
405lb bench (213% bench)
425lb deadlift x2 (224% deadlift for 2 reps)


So yes, he has better percentages than me on the squat...which was probably a 90 degree and not an ATG squat....my bench is slightly better....and his deadlift was for one rep and not two...

In essence, I'm not impressed at all, considering that this man is a dedicated full time bodybuilder, who is several years older than me. You failed to manage to even provide someone impressive enough to make one bit of difference.

Had you shown me evidence of Jay Cutler, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Flex Wheeler, Franco Columbu, Dorian Yates, etc etc etc. Agreeing with your points 100% (and not for a supplement ad) , then I might take them into furthered research.



So we will now review.


1. You need to read before you start responding.
2. You need to NOT plagiarize.
3. Your ideas need to be researched BY YOU
4. Your decision to continue arguing with me when you are dead wrong shows your arrogance and thick-headedness.
5. Your one bodybuilder you could show me is far from impressive given his circumstances.
6. Overall you have succeeded in wasting my time even further - if that was your plan, well played sir.

If not - I think you really need to drop this. I will not spend hours opening books, finding page numbers and citing sources to you....you are not my professor - not do I have an obligation to you. I do not have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

if you disagree with my knowledge and expertise, GET OUT OF THE THREAD AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! Go make a thread of your own if you feel so inclined...lets see how many people use your information before they realize you are googling everything and copy+pasting.

If you want to give it up, apologize to everyone who's time you wasted, and stay on the thread...YOU ARE WELCOME TO!

Was wondering if too much peanut butter in your diet is a bad thing. I heard peanut butter is great for bulking, was wondering if you can overdo it.

lol

speaking of epic fail...

notice "From www.t-nation.com" and the quotes around that? Do I claim to write any of that? It's simply one example of writing that supports what I am saying. Not citing page numbers is a lot better than what you're doing.

I understand you are raging right now and find the need to smash your keyboard furiously in these long-winded attempts to discredit me (by saying I plagiarize) -- laughable

Continue to impress us with your SUPERIOR EGO

"This astounds me. next time you try to come off as a brilliant sage, who knows everything about post-workout nutrition and the biology of the human body in relation to aminos and uptake...please at least TRY to do your OWN research, and not rip off some guy on the internet - who also probably ripped off most of his sources."

I've already addressed the MAIN POINT you are trying to make which just demonstrates you didn't even read the post I made (interesting). Secondly, where do I claim to be a sage? This is your own idea, your own perspective because you feel threatened (see my argument about ego/being challenged)

"And now lets wrap it up with a little talk about Justin Harris. You want to prove your point because ONE bodybuilder that you have read an article about (who also owns Troponin Nutrition) says some of the things that you happen to agree with unconditionally. First off, if one of the MANY bodybuilders that I lift with (or have lifted with) are "taking gear" - very easily so could your famed Justin Harris. So lets not get off topic."

Mr. Florida. The fact that Justin Harris took or is taking steroids is NOT the issue. The issue is of post-workout nutrition. Am I saying if you do what you say, your muscle will turn into butter? No, we're simply discussing optimal ways of doing things.

"Before I even continue, lets get a few things straight. I am not a pro-card bodybuilder. I am a professional in the sport of bodybuilding, power lifting, nutrition, fitness, anatomy/physiology, and biology. I lift as a hobby, not as a professional. Please name one bodybuilder you know that also attends medical school and works (which totals to 80 hours per week!). Exactly. So before you try to start comparing me to people, understand this, I never once tried to say that I was the best 191 lb (bulked) bodybuilder there is...I never once said there were others who aren't bigger, stronger, faster, or better than me in the sport - there are TONS. However, not one of them goes to med school, or helps people online free of charge, or dedicates themselves to their clients at work. "

Hey Mr. Ego, I know it helps you sleep at night thinking your life is so grand and you're so unique, but honestly, get over yourself. You've just spent so much time ranting about post-workout nutrition when I simply said "Hey, I think this is a better idea" Go to class or something

"First off he weighs over 280lbs off season. That is nearly 100 lbs more than me in my off season....not 50 lbs as you stated. (as bad at math as you are at researching things on your own?)

In addition, he has several years of age more than me as well, muscle maturity is an important factor here.

Moreover, his lifts are the following @ 280 lbs.

876lb squat (313% squat)
573lb bench (204% bench)
700lb deadlift (250% deadlift)

(source: http://insidebodybuilding.***/2007/05/brand-new-bodybuildingprocom-interview.html)


if you insist on comparing, here are mine @ 190 lbs.

455 squat ATG (223% squat)
405lb bench (213% bench)
425lb deadlift x2 (224% deadlift for 2 reps)


So yes, he has better percentages than me on the squat...which was probably a 90 degree and not an ATG squat....my bench is slightly better....and his deadlift was for one rep and not two..."

At this point I can't take you seriously. I honestly can't. To put his lifts and your lifts side by side and to say what you just said shows how little you understand. You have no clue man. I don't know why I am bothering with someone who doesn't even know what it's like to have 500 pounds on their back.

"In essence, I'm not impressed at all, considering that this man is a dedicated full time bodybuilder, who is several years older than me. You failed to manage to even provide someone impressive enough to make one bit of difference.

Had you shown me evidence of Jay Cutler, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Flex Wheeler, Franco Columbu, Dorian Yates, etc etc etc. Agreeing with your points 100% (and not for a supplement ad) , then I might take them into furthered research."

Let me just stop you before you make an absolute travesty of someone who is so much more accomplished than you. Justin Harris is not a full time bodybuilder. He's competed in a bodybuilding show and he's also done powerlifting meets. However, like you said, he owns a company, has a family and works tirelessly. And don't be so high on your horse, check elitefts.com, he gives FREE training advice CONSTANTLY to COUNTLESS more people than you and for years longer.

I guess the UNIVERSITY OF MIAMI MEDICAL SCHOOL is just where all the superior humans are studying. If you're here to offer free help to people, do it. I've decided to challenge one of your ideas and you've been saying the same things in all your rants... because that's what they are. Rants.

Also -- BCAA mass loading, sure do it, it's not convenient but it has it's benefits. Poliquin, I mentioned it already.


Delusional, that's what you are. If you see an 850+ squat and you think what you just posted in your head, you have ISSUES.