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Aug 29 2014 07:30am
GVT is Alpha as fuk
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Aug 29 2014 08:06am
Quote (Alpha @ 29 Aug 2014 09:30)
GVT is Alpha as fuk


A lot of the bodybuilders who want to spare their joints are really into versions of gvt. I think Kai helped get amateur bodybuilders back into volume building. (Not saying he is gvt, just saying he isn't into constant heavy lifting)

e: trisetting/giant setting (not same as supersetting), small angle training and two a days are apparently pretty effective for hypertrophy
e: just finished reading Balla's 1st post. That is the word on slow negatives and time under tension what what I heard as well. Again Kai 101.

This post was edited by RewtheBrave on Aug 29 2014 08:16am
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Aug 30 2014 07:01pm
Quote (Lightman @ Aug 29 2014 09:23am)
An effective ppl can reach 200 weekly sets. Not suited for everyone out there


Quite steep indeed.
I can definitely see 150-170 without a doubt.. 200 is insane though.

Quote (Mesonychid @ Aug 29 2014 08:50am)
Gvt with increased frequency seems like it can be pretty taxing on the cns if you don't get enough food in you lol


Eh, it'd come out to a similar volume as I'm doing regardless on a p/p/l routine I'd say. Ie aiming for around 30 sets over 2 days.. GVT once a week on burns level 3 (last lvl) is 30 sets in one session.
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Aug 30 2014 07:28pm
Quote (Balla @ Aug 28 2014 10:56pm)
After trying several different things, it does seem hitting everything twice is superior. That also makes sense from a mechanistic perspective, as hitting 30 sets over the course of 2 days, as opposed to 1, enhances the propensity toward a myogenic gene expression modality and leaves protein synthesis elevated longer. The only caveat here is that it's likely dependent on training history.. ie, a complete beginner could easily get away with more and so on.

Ergo, a push/pull/legs/push/pull/legs/off/repeat is my ideal split now. It's not that I'm opposed to something different, it's just hard to come up with a different split that allows hitting each body part twice a week without severe overlap and still enables high volume, which is unequivocally optimal for hypertrophy.

To break it down some,  high volume is concomitantly the most and least important aspects, paradoxically. You must lift with a certain % of your max (intensity) to fully stimulate and activate all motor units/muscle fibers adequately. The recent study from Brad corroborated that. Furthermore, for the reasons I briefly outlined, hitting everything twice is undoubtedly optimal, and at this moment, there's no reason to think otherwise. Thus, increasing volume is the only real component you can play around with and increase (similar to CHOs in your diet, for instance.. protein/fats should be RELATIVELY stable based on a necessity).

From Brad's book (he's basically the most prominent figure in the field of exploring hypertrophy.. I hate referencing him so much, but he's done by far more than anyone else) and from strictly mechanistic insight again, keeping a relatively controlled/slow negative is ideal for hyp as well (ie 2-3 secs.. I usually stick with 2 secs as a good standard). A forceful concentric portion is fine/ideal as well, just ensure you actually squeeze the weight somewhat (don't go overboard, that's also a mistake). Mind-muscle connection is actually quite integral to true progression, as to ensure optimal contraction.. we are going for hypertrophy after all and don't want to just "move" the weight with literally no care/bearing for our actual muscular activation. Rest periods, anywhere from 45 secs-2 mins is probably ideal. The studies on this subject are more scarce, however, it's definitive that lower rest times will stimulate greater metabolic stress which likely translates to augmented hyp. Optimal rep range is around 10-15 for fast twitch predominant fibers and 15-20 for slow twitch predominant fibers.

Purpose of the higher time-under-tension (based on 2 sec negatives and high rep sets) and low rest times is to augment metabolic stress, resulting in maximal muscular micro-tears necessitating celeritous repair. Reaching lactic acid threshold (plus other metabolites) as well will cause an increase in extracellular (surrounding the muscle) acidity (lower pH) causing further fiber degredation, membrane rupturing, and general membrane perturbations (apart from the intrinsic aspects such as cross-bridge cycling, mechanotransduction, etc) to fully maximize ALL possible anabolic pathways ie; mTOR-p70s6k pathways, MAPK pathways and Ca2+ - calcineurin pathways. Not only that, this type of training orienting itself in general will cause further hypertrophy of different non-contractile proteins (ie; desmin, dystrophin, alpha-actinin, nebulin, titin, et cetera) and cytoskeletal rearrangement (ie sarcoplasmic gain), as well as increased cell swelling/water & glycogen retention. With that said, higher volume routines also stimulate greater bouts of protein synthesis (though I'm not one to typically look at the fallacy of ONLY measuring acute protein synthesis rates, it certainly plays a role).

Furthermore, following w/ the previous section: there's good evidence to suggest that higher volume ALSO stimulates greater satellite cell proliferation (and ofc MyoD upregulation, coinciding w/ the proliferation). Most types of training will equate to robust satellite cell differentiation and induction, though higher volume, typical hyp training even equates to greater myonuclei donation (via greater myogenin increases) than do other types of training. The difference in proliferation is more profound but both are noteworthy. Much of that can likely be attributed to the muscular shearing and such causing a more robust immune cascade following training.

So yeah, my favorite hyp workout is outlined above.. and the reasons are also given why it probably elicits the greatest hyp adaptation as well.

With that said, my favorite form of progression is increasing sets every so often.. it's seemed to work the best for me. Volume = weight x reps x sets. Your reps will generally remain stable (10-15) whilst your weight slowly creeps up. Esp as you continue progressive overload and progression and get into some decent weight, a hyp workout is going to provide quite slow weight progression. For that reason I like to slowly add sets, say, bi-weekly over the course of a long period of time. This gives me another form of progressive overload irrespective of any governed by the canonical weight stack increases.

I try to aim for roughly 30 sets per large body part per week (around 16-20, direct for bis and tris, separately). One thing I would do also to acclimate to the higher volume is the employ the progression I outlined.. ie start the bulk modest (say, 24 sets/week for that bp), then slowly creep up the sets over a few months until you're at 30+. When you begin feeling run down via the overreaching that's probably occuring, deload and get back at it.


which are which doe
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Aug 30 2014 08:13pm
Quote (Deathslaya16 @ Aug 30 2014 09:28pm)
which are which doe


Slow - traps, forearms, calves
fast - chest, bis/tris, quads/hams

of course it's not so binary, there's a continuum. I believe abs, shoulders, and the other muscles of the back (including lats) are somewhere in the middle, depending on the person.

For msot of those in the middle I probably wouldn't go up to the higher end of the spectrum.. ie 10-15 is still probably ideal there imo.
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Aug 30 2014 08:21pm
Quote (Balla @ Aug 30 2014 09:13pm)
Slow - traps, forearms, calves
fast - chest, bis/tris, quads/hams

of course it's not so binary, there's a continuum. I believe abs, shoulders, and the other muscles of the back (including lats) are somewhere in the middle, depending on the person.

For msot of those in the middle I probably wouldn't go up to the higher end of the spectrum.. ie 10-15 is still probably ideal there imo.


ty m9
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Aug 31 2014 02:21pm
Quote (Balla @ Aug 28 2014 11:56pm)
After trying several different things, it does seem hitting everything twice is superior. That also makes sense from a mechanistic perspective, as hitting 30 sets over the course of 2 days, as opposed to 1, enhances the propensity toward a myogenic gene expression modality and leaves protein synthesis elevated longer. The only caveat here is that it's likely dependent on training history.. ie, a complete beginner could easily get away with more and so on.

Ergo, a push/pull/legs/push/pull/legs/off/repeat is my ideal split now. It's not that I'm opposed to something different, it's just hard to come up with a different split that allows hitting each body part twice a week without severe overlap and still enables high volume, which is unequivocally optimal for hypertrophy.

To break it down some,  high volume is concomitantly the most and least important aspects, paradoxically. You must lift with a certain % of your max (intensity) to fully stimulate and activate all motor units/muscle fibers adequately. The recent study from Brad corroborated that. Furthermore, for the reasons I briefly outlined, hitting everything twice is undoubtedly optimal, and at this moment, there's no reason to think otherwise. Thus, increasing volume is the only real component you can play around with and increase (similar to CHOs in your diet, for instance.. protein/fats should be RELATIVELY stable based on a necessity).

From Brad's book (he's basically the most prominent figure in the field of exploring hypertrophy.. I hate referencing him so much, but he's done by far more than anyone else) and from strictly mechanistic insight again, keeping a relatively controlled/slow negative is ideal for hyp as well (ie 2-3 secs.. I usually stick with 2 secs as a good standard). A forceful concentric portion is fine/ideal as well, just ensure you actually squeeze the weight somewhat (don't go overboard, that's also a mistake). Mind-muscle connection is actually quite integral to true progression, as to ensure optimal contraction.. we are going for hypertrophy after all and don't want to just "move" the weight with literally no care/bearing for our actual muscular activation. Rest periods, anywhere from 45 secs-2 mins is probably ideal. The studies on this subject are more scarce, however, it's definitive that lower rest times will stimulate greater metabolic stress which likely translates to augmented hyp. Optimal rep range is around 10-15 for fast twitch predominant fibers and 15-20 for slow twitch predominant fibers.

Purpose of the higher time-under-tension (based on 2 sec negatives and high rep sets) and low rest times is to augment metabolic stress, resulting in maximal muscular micro-tears necessitating celeritous repair. Reaching lactic acid threshold (plus other metabolites) as well will cause an increase in extracellular (surrounding the muscle) acidity (lower pH) causing further fiber degredation, membrane rupturing, and general membrane perturbations (apart from the intrinsic aspects such as cross-bridge cycling, mechanotransduction, etc) to fully maximize ALL possible anabolic pathways ie; mTOR-p70s6k pathways, MAPK pathways and Ca2+ - calcineurin pathways. Not only that, this type of training orienting itself in general will cause further hypertrophy of different non-contractile proteins (ie; desmin, dystrophin, alpha-actinin, nebulin, titin, et cetera) and cytoskeletal rearrangement (ie sarcoplasmic gain), as well as increased cell swelling/water & glycogen retention. With that said, higher volume routines also stimulate greater bouts of protein synthesis (though I'm not one to typically look at the fallacy of ONLY measuring acute protein synthesis rates, it certainly plays a role).

Furthermore, following w/ the previous section: there's good evidence to suggest that higher volume ALSO stimulates greater satellite cell proliferation (and ofc MyoD upregulation, coinciding w/ the proliferation). Most types of training will equate to robust satellite cell differentiation and induction, though higher volume, typical hyp training even equates to greater myonuclei donation (via greater myogenin increases) than do other types of training. The difference in proliferation is more profound but both are noteworthy. Much of that can likely be attributed to the muscular shearing and such causing a more robust immune cascade following training.

So yeah, my favorite hyp workout is outlined above.. and the reasons are also given why it probably elicits the greatest hyp adaptation as well.

With that said, my favorite form of progression is increasing sets every so often.. it's seemed to work the best for me. Volume = weight x reps x sets. Your reps will generally remain stable (10-15) whilst your weight slowly creeps up. Esp as you continue progressive overload and progression and get into some decent weight, a hyp workout is going to provide quite slow weight progression. For that reason I like to slowly add sets, say, bi-weekly over the course of a long period of time. This gives me another form of progressive overload irrespective of any governed by the canonical weight stack increases.

I try to aim for roughly 30 sets per large body part per week (around 16-20, direct for bis and tris, separately). One thing I would do also to acclimate to the higher volume is the employ the progression I outlined.. ie start the bulk modest (say, 24 sets/week for that bp), then slowly creep up the sets over a few months until you're at 30+. When you begin feeling run down via the overreaching that's probably occuring, deload and get back at it.


The fact that you took the time to write all that is impressive.
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Aug 31 2014 05:25pm
Quote (Balla @ Aug 30 2014 08:01pm)
Quite steep indeed.
I can definitely see 150-170 without a doubt.. 200 is insane though.



Eh, it'd come out to a similar volume as I'm doing regardless on a p/p/l routine I'd say. Ie aiming for around 30 sets over 2 days.. GVT once a week on burns level 3 (last lvl) is 30 sets in one session.


30 sets for 6 days of the week = 180 sets.

I could see people getting 200

And exactly how much does all that extra volume help in terms of micro tears and eventually leading to more hypertrophy. Say you do half the sets, how much less muscle growth are you really going to get? Is it that substantial?

This post was edited by tommyd323 on Aug 31 2014 05:42pm
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Aug 31 2014 05:59pm
^^ and how do you go about exercises like incline db press, you could say it hits chest, shoulders, and triceps. Would that be 1 sets for each or just the main muscle it targets (pectoral)?
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Aug 31 2014 06:11pm
I will approach answers although as the questions seem directed to Balla, he can speak for himself if he wants.

Quote (tommyd323 @ 31 Aug 2014 19:25)
30 sets for 6 days of the week = 180 sets.

I could see people getting 200

And exactly how much does all that extra volume help in terms of micro tears and eventually leading to more hypertrophy. Say you do half the sets, how much less muscle growth are you really going to get? Is it that substantial?


Well, volume is the name of the game in hypertrophy. How much? I don't know. Substantial? It depends on the program in place but in general, it's probably going to be substantial. As Arnold says, hypertrophy is about thousands and thousands of reps and how they add up over time to create a complete physique.

Quote (tommyd323 @ 31 Aug 2014 19:59)
^^ and how do you go about exercises like incline db press, you could say it hits chest, shoulders, and triceps. Would that be 1 sets for each or just the main muscle it targets (pectoral)?


In hypertrophy you usually count the main. If you're doing chest/tri/shoulders together ... start with shoulders or chest (bigger groups), and count the incline movement as you wish. If you're splitting the days differently as a lot of folks would do, then you definitely want to count incline db press as chest alone imho.
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