Is it right to raise and eat animals?
What criteria should we look at to decide?
Are animals conscious?


Continuation of random discussion
http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=74645187&f=197&o=20



Yeah but that's just an argument for the way they're treated, I don't think many people would argue that it's fine the way it is
It would be easier to change to laws for the treatment of livestock rather than forcing everyone to go vegan

As to whether it's right to do this to something conscious, even if the conditions are good, I don't know. They wouldn't exist at all if it wasn't the case and i tend to feel any sort of life/experience is good without a certain amount of suffering. It ends up going to religion and the nature/origin of consciousness. But I guess people just pretend they aren't conscious which makes all these ethical questions go away.

if it's possible to sustain without eating meat or animal products then it's immoral as it's the creation of arbitrary suffering

Criteria depends on meat, and cuisine

as long as they arent cute

actually i dont think majority mind enough how they are treated since they are eating whaever is tastiest / cheapest
i think we should (obviously stop subsiding meat/dairy/egg) start taxing factory farmed meat and dairy progressively up until ban it totally

i dont think its right but if they would have full Free life (which isnt the case at all when factory farmed so their life isnt worth living)

i dont think it is or should be religious at all but religious people should be in avant garde of not eating animals



this 100%

It would be unfair to call the lives of the vast majority of farmed animals anything but pure suffering. Many argue about that the real value of life--the reason behind it being immoral to end a life, is that it's the deprivation of future value from subjective experience, which animals have. But not all subjective experience is valuable, such as is obviously the case when the only thing you experience is suffering. There is empirical evidence that a living and feeling being prefers death to life with only suffering and that is the actions of the suicidal (emotionally in pain) and the begging for mercy killing of the fatally ill/wounded (physically in pain). So by doing onto animals what's even worse than death in terms of what they prefer, it would be hard to argue it's any better that they were given life.

This post was edited by Nathan on Jul 1 2016 07:47am

Yes, otherwise you're just eating their food and killing them anyways

Not necessarily, as long as the suffering you've made isn't gratuitous.

I eat the suffering ones though, it makes the meat taste better.

atleast pigs are more intelligent than dogs


how do you decided whats too much - all factory farmed animals seem to suffer far too much to me
ive heard its the other way around - game (or w/e its called) from the woods tastes better



yes we should make the population of eaten animals muuuuuuuuuuch lower, not make anymore of them unless their living conditions are proper and for give those alive a proper living