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Oct 15 2014 09:53pm
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Oct 15 2014 09:53pm
Quote (Exx @ Oct 16 2014 03:48am)
actually i'm quite interested in how you'd prove that to be false. care to elaborate?


it would be easier for you to share a support piece for macro evolution for me to reply on, rather than it as a whole, as there are many " evidences" for it
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Oct 15 2014 09:56pm
Quote (AkuuZ @ 16 Oct 2014 03:53)
it would be easier for you to share a support piece for macro evolution for me to reply on, rather than it as a whole, as there are many " evidences" for it


Ok then. Let's try this -

Macroevolution - Evolution that results in the formation of a new taxonomic group above the level of a species.

I'm going to break down my argument into four simple primary points that any layman can examine:

1) Fossil - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study the fossil record as a whole we should see an apparent and gradual change over time between different distinct species. For example, if we presume species X evolved from, or shares a common ancestor with species Y, over the course of Z years, we would expect to find fossil forms that change from X, to appearing to be X less and less like X and gradually more and more like Y, and those fossils should be independently dated and fit within the current hypothesis in terms of timescale.

2) Morphological - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study currently living organisms, we should find various parts of the body that are "left over" parts, remnants from presumed previous ancestor species that those older species would have used for various specific purposes in their specific habitats, but currently have no known use or existing function for the current species in it's current habitat, or would have current uses that might be drastically different than their ancestors and were co-opted for other uses to adapt to different environments.

3) Genetic - If we were to examine the genomes of all living things, we should find patterns and similarities connecting different species and they would be related to the extent that the species are related. Like the fossil evidence, we should find patterns over time that fit into their respective time scales, and presumed relatives should share parts of their genomes that correlate to the combination between each species genetic rates of change and the amount of time between the divergence of those species. Oversimplified example: Species X's DNA is known to change about Q% each generation, and we think that species X diverged from species Y approximately Z years ago, we would hypothesize the DNA of species Y to be at most Z * Q% different.

4) Convergence of Evidence - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between two species, we should find this hypothesis is supported by the genetic evidence, fossil evidence, AND morphological evidence, and that each provides strength and independent verification to the others.

If macroevolution occurred, we would expect to find evidence supporting the aforementioned hypothesis, as well as each distinct area supporting the others. While this is only an extremely small and oversimplified part of the overwhelming evidence for macro evolution, providing independent and converging evidence that supports each hypothesis would be very strong evidence for macroevolution.

This post was edited by Scaly on Oct 15 2014 09:56pm
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Oct 15 2014 09:56pm
Quote (Scaly @ Oct 15 2014 11:56pm)
Ok then. Let's try this -

Macroevolution - Evolution that results in the formation of a new taxonomic group above the level of a species. (1)

I'm going to break down my argument into four simple primary points that any layman can examine:

1) Fossil - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study the fossil record as a whole we should see an apparent and gradual change over time between different distinct species. For example, if we presume species X evolved from, or shares a common ancestor with species Y, over the course of Z years, we would expect to find fossil forms that change from X, to appearing to be X less and less like X and gradually more and more like Y, and those fossils should be independently dated and fit within the current hypothesis in terms of timescale.

2) Morphological - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between species, when we study currently living organisms, we should find various parts of the body that are "left over" parts, remnants from presumed previous ancestor species that those older species would have used for various specific purposes in their specific habitats, but currently have no known use or existing function for the current species in it's current habitat, or would have current uses that might be drastically different than their ancestors and were co-opted for other uses to adapt to different environments.

3) Genetic - If we were to examine the genomes of all living things, we should find patterns and similarities connecting different species and they would be related to the extent that the species are related. Like the fossil evidence, we should find patterns over time that fit into their respective time scales, and presumed relatives should share parts of their genomes that correlate to the combination between each species genetic rates of change and the amount of time between the divergence of those species. Oversimplified example: Species X's DNA is known to change about Q% each generation, and we think that species X diverged from species Y approximately Z years ago, we would hypothesize the DNA of species Y to be at most Z * Q% different.

4) Convergence of Evidence - If we were to hypothesize that there is common descent between two species, we should find this hypothesis is supported by the genetic evidence, fossil evidence, AND morphological evidence, and that each provides strength and independent verification to the others.

If macroevolution occurred, we would expect to find evidence supporting the aforementioned hypothesis, as well as each distinct area supporting the others. While this is only an extremely small and oversimplified part of the overwhelming evidence for macro evolution, providing independent and converging evidence that supports each hypothesis would be very strong evidence for macroevolution.


tldr
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Oct 15 2014 09:59pm
I don't care if you believe in evolution, god, allah, aliens, elvis being alive or JFK being the mastermind behind the september 11, 2001 attacks.

Your personal beliefs are your personal beliefs and you're entitled to them.
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Oct 15 2014 09:59pm
Quote (Worrywart @ Oct 15 2014 11:59pm)
I don't care if you believe in evolution, god, allah, aliens, elvis being alive or JFK being the mastermind behind the september 11, 2001 attacks.

Your personal beliefs are your personal beliefs and you're entitled to them.


amen
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Oct 15 2014 10:00pm
Quote (expiredwraps @ 16 Oct 2014 03:56)
tldr


Wouldn't expect you to. It wasn't for you and if you're anything like the rest of your guildmates you don't have the intellectual capacity to comprehend even the entirety of this post, let alone the one you just quoted.
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Oct 15 2014 10:00pm
I don't believe in the same sort of evolution you do ;).
Evolution exists, don't get me wrong, but.... The way it is portrayed as the forefathers of all our species is a bit obnoxious and no real hard evidence. Maybe if there were crossbreeds and could actually produce fertile offspring, or other sort of evidence like that I could go with the current evolution theory. It definitely needs fine tuning.
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Oct 15 2014 10:03pm
Quote (ChrisKz @ 16 Oct 2014 04:00)
I don't believe in the same sort of evolution you do ;).
Evolution exists, don't get me wrong, but.... The way it is portrayed as the forefathers of all our species is a bit obnoxious and no real hard evidence. Maybe if there were crossbreeds and could actually produce fertile offspring, or other sort of evidence like that I could go with the current evolution theory. It definitely needs fine tuning.


Why do there need to be crossbreeds that can produce fertile offspring? (there are btw... ever look at a pet trading website? It's full of crossbreeds).

Just because you haven't researched or can't understand the evidence doesn't mean it's nonexistent.

This post was edited by Scaly on Oct 15 2014 10:04pm
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Oct 15 2014 10:03pm
Quote (Worrywart @ Oct 15 2014 10:59pm)
I don't care if you believe in evolution, god, allah, aliens, elvis being alive or JFK being the mastermind behind the september 11, 2001 attacks.

Your personal beliefs are your personal beliefs and you're entitled to them.


fact is fact and if you believe in magic you're wrong.
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