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Poll > Who Would Win > Superman Vs. Goku
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Jul 22 2016 07:11am
goky
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Jul 22 2016 07:55am
Quote (Devil_kin @ Jul 22 2016 08:43pm)
An ordinary human has a power level of 5. It takes 27 PSI to crack open a human skull. In the first episode of Dragonball, Goku has a power level of 10. In that episode he is hit by a car and shot in the head by Bulma. Even a shot from a 9mm gun is over 30,000 PSI. Goku did not even bleed from that shot. The difference of 5 to 10 is a LOT more than double. This trend continues when Master Roshi blows up the moon with a power level of 140. The moon is about an 83rd of the weight of the Earth in mass. That's over 150 sextillion pounds worth of mass destroyed in a single shot. That is less than Pre Crisis Superman has been shown to lift with 1 arm, when he lifted 4 septillion pounds. Even so, it's an important thing to note.

It appears power levels do not scale linearly. It seems that each power level is more significant than the previous. If this pattern continues indefinitely, it's possible Goku is stronger than, or at least as strong as Pre Crisis Superman as early as the first episode of Dragonball z with his power level of over 950. During his fight with Vegeta, Vegeta threatens to blow up the Earth with a power level of 18,000. Some think that is a bluff, I think that would be out of character with Vegeta's personality, but that's another debate entirely.

Anywho, with the way power levels increase in DBZ, by the end of the Frieza saga Goku was likely capable of mass destruction on a galactic scale. Which brings me to my next point. Some will call this next point non-canon in the extreme as this is a movie reference. If you wish to do that, that's your choice. I do believe the movies follow the same "rules" as the anime/manga though. There is actually one power level stated to be higher than SS Frieza saga Goku. According to V-Jump magazing, LSS Broly has a power level of 1.4 billion.

Broly destroys the entire South Galaxy in his movie. That's a rather misleading term though, and probably doesn't mean what you think it does. In real life, a galaxy is 50-100 billion planets. There are about 600 sextillion planets in the observable universe. The South Galaxy in DBZ is not a typical real life galaxy, it is one quarter of the universe. So assuming our universes are the same size, Broly destroyed about 150 sextillion planets in one blast. I believe it's been shown that at higher super saiyan forms, possibly as early as FPSS, Goku is stronger than Broly. As a super saiyan 3, Goku is certainly more powerful than Broly, and super saiyan 3s have been shown to be able to break the laws of reality. So it's likely that SS3 Goku could destroy the universe, maybe even reality itself.

Now to cover speed, this is a fun one. On foot Superman cannot reach lightspeed. The Flash was shown to be faster than Superman in a footrace, as mentioned above. If the Flash ever reaches lightspeed he joins with the speedforce, which he clearly didn't in that race. So he didn't need to even reach lightspeed to beat Superman. Superman appears to be able to fly faster than lightspeed though, as traversing our solar system in a few minutes would require a little more than lightspeed, since the distance from the Earth to the Sun is 7 light minutes.

How fast is Goku though? Well, there's only two good events that you can use to measure speed in DBZ. One is the kamehameha wave from Cooler's Revenge. In about 10 seconds, Goku's kamehameha wave reached from the Earth to the Sun, making it about 50 times faster than the speed of light. Therefore, anyone that can dodge SS1 Goku's kamehameha wave, or even see it, has to be at least 50 times faster than the speed of light. Why is seeing it important? In DBZ, there are many times that the characters move faster than other characters can see. So basically, any villain post SS1 that can keep up with Goku can move at least 50 times faster than lightspeed.

The other case is a little more extreme though. When Vegeta uses The Final Flash against Cell. It's clearly shown that his blast leaves our solar system and explodes on a far away planet/star. The closest planet to our solar system is 10.5 lightyears away. That's 31556926 light seconds. It got there in only 20 seconds, therefore The Final Flash moves at least 1577846.3 times faster than lightspeed. And that was just ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta. Keep in mind perfect Cell saw this attack coming, yet is unable to see SS2 Gohan's movements. And SS3 Goku is obviously far stronger and faster. I don't think Goku would even need to transform to beat Pre Crisis Superman. He could likely kill him with a single finger. To put another nail in the coffin though, let's talk about fighting skills.

Goku is a world champion martial artist that continuously trains to better himself. Many times he has fought evenly with beings of similar or greater power. There is a time when Pre Crisis Superman loses his powers. During this time he has a boxing match with Muhammad Ali. Superman loses without landing a single blow, due to his lack of fighting skill. He has been trained in martial arts by Batman, but he is no world class fighter. Superman is also not used to actually fighting an equal or more powerful opponent at faster than light speeds.


At no stage has goku shown any kind of feats like this, pre crisis superman was showing them all the time.
The whole write up is by some super nerd who cherry picks.
The whole "Superman raced flash and didnt hit lightspeed" thing is just dumb, they crossed the universe in seconds.. he goes on to say gokus attack was 50 times the speed of light because it made it from the sun to earth in 10 seconds..
What?


This post was edited by HimynameisMatt on Jul 22 2016 07:59am
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Jul 22 2016 07:56am
Goku

Instant transmission >
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Jul 22 2016 08:00am
Quote (HimynameisMatt @ 22 Jul 2016 07:55)
At no stage has goku shown any kind of feats like this, pre crisis superman was showing them all the time.


feats like what?
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Jul 22 2016 08:03am
Quote (Devil_kin @ Jul 23 2016 01:00am)
feats like what?


A sneeze from PC Superman actually destroyed an entire solar system.
Back in the PC days, Supes was so powerful that he could easily move a star with just his breath.
PC Supes was so powerful that he could actually close a Boom-Tube with his bare hands.
PC Supes is able to withstand eating molten metal.
PC Superman toyed around with an enraged Hulk like he was a child (It was from a PC Crossover).
PC Superman could move the entire Earth like a ping-pong ball.
Superman is able to fly at such speeds, that he can enter hyperspace effortlessly.
PC Superman was so powerful that he could alter time itself without even trying.
PC Supes was able to travel trillions of miles in SECONDS without exerting any effort at all.
PC Supes easily threw a neutron star several light years away. He claims that the star weighed Trillions of tons and that it exerted a magnetic pull greater then dozens of Supernovas, but this didn’t affect him in the slightest.
PC Superman threw moon-sized balls of ice at the Earth, where all the oceans had been dried up.
Superman was able to fly through the time barrier and go millions of years into the past on a whim.
While PC Clark was in disguise he was confronted by the Joker who released an enormous amount of his laughing gas. Supes was able to inhale all of the gas before it contaminated anyone........he wasn’t laughing.
PC Supes brushed off the explosion of a nuclear warhead which could have vaporized the entire East coast.
PC Clark could move so fast that he appeared invisible.
This is a pretty impressive speed feat. Though not as impressive as some of his others, PC Supes shows that he is easily able to fly next to a space ship to make sure it got out of Earth’s orbit with no complications..... It’s a speed feat because the average speed of a space shuttle when leaving the atmosphere is around 23,000 mph.
With the sword in his hand, Supeman's cape deflected the most powerful blast King Kosmos could muster, it was a blast that could have altered reality itself, yet it was blocked by Superman’s clothing.
Superman (after nearly killing King Kosmos out of anger) decides that this sword which was present at the dawn of time, cannot be controlled as a seperate entity, so at this point he actually starts merging with the sword. Superman remarks on how it has power of which he has NEVER felt. Before Superman completely merged himself with Infinity (the sword) he stopped just as he got to its hilt, and decided he no longer needed to merge with the sword, so he threw the remainder of it into deep space. Why did Superman stop merging with the sword you ask? In the midst of Superman fusing with the sword, he heard a Godly voice (either Jor-El or God himself), and this voice spoke of Superman's greatness.
“Your greatness among living things is assured. So shall it EVER be”. Had Superman merged with this sword, he would have become one with all of the universe.
PC Superman displays his super-intellect by learning a long dead, yet incredibly sophisticated language (which he had never heard before); instantly.
PC Supes caught meteorites, and moved around planet-sized asteroids effortlessly.
These next feats are from centuries in the future. PC Superman is now a bearded old man, but he is still alive, and as powerful as ever.

Bruce Wayne has long since been dead, but Superman saved some astronauts who were on a mission in deep space for Wayne Enterprises.
The astronaut says to Superman: “I thought you were dead!" to which Superman replies: “I tried that once, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be." PC Superman could apparently choose whether or not he wanted to live or die.
Not even Flash was fast enough to punch PC Supes...YES...back in the day, Superman was MUCH faster than the Flash.
The Guardians send Superman on a special mission to preserve the Galactic Balance of Nature. Superman is not at full power during this event, as the part of the Galaxy he is flying through was full of red stars. Despite this, Superman was still strong enough to make a small planet by fusing meteorites together, and then proceeds to move it.
Superman intercepted a bomb that was meant to destroy the Earth and wasn’t harmed at all.
He moved the moon before.
A Supernova only dazes Superman for a micro second. He then finds himself in an unknown solar system and proceeds to drill his way to the center of a planet.
PC Superman could actually create a tiny version of himself, an avatar so to speak, which was endowed with all of his powers (but he loses his powers if he does it).
Superman one time defeated the Galactic Golem. The Galactic Golem is the monstrous result of Lex Luthor’s attempt to create life by collecting galactic matter into the form of a man. Infusing his creation with a hunger for the hyper-stellar energy that made its creation possible. During this battle Superman uses the Golem’s own energy-radiation to speed up his vibrations and shift every living thing on the Earth to another dimensional plane.
Superman balances a replica of the Empire State building with just his pinky.
Superman’s Fortress of Solitude contained an entire solar system he created by himself.
PC Kryptonians could travel between dimensions and universes at will.
Superman and Power Girl easily defeat creatures that had conquered entire worlds.
Maaldor, a powerful cosmic being who had existed for billions of years and conquered an entire universe, refers to Superman and Power Girl as the two most powerful beings in the multiverse. He tries to kill Power Girl, then Superman fights him and it states that Maaldor shrugs off attacks that could reduce a planet to rubble, and replies with attacks that have been used for just that purpose. Superman is fine, and it turns out that Power Girl survived.
Superman and Power Girl trick Maaldor into confronting his own soul which causes him to self-destruct and create an entire new universe from the remains of his energy. Superman sealed off that universe from the rest of the multiverse with his heat vision.
A rogue Superboy robot grabbed Superman and flew him thousands of miles into space in a fraction of a second, then flings him faster than light across the solar system. He can’t turn around until he reaches Uranus, but he still gets back in only a matter of minutes.
Superman contained a nuclear bomb with his cape.
Superman contained a supernova explosion.
Easily survived a 10 megaton bomb.
Is only knocked back slightly by a gravitational force that could move a planet.
Used some extra energy to reignite a dying Sun.
Casually flew past galaxies in seconds.
Superman moved a star with his breath.
Superman turned a diamond into a piece of coal by altering it’s molecular pattern.
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Jul 22 2016 08:05am
Quote (HimynameisMatt @ 22 Jul 2016 08:03)
A sneeze from PC Superman actually destroyed an entire solar system.
Back in the PC days, Supes was so powerful that he could easily move a star with just his breath.
PC Supes was so powerful that he could actually close a Boom-Tube with his bare hands.
PC Supes is able to withstand eating molten metal.
PC Superman toyed around with an enraged Hulk like he was a child (It was from a PC Crossover).
PC Superman could move the entire Earth like a ping-pong ball.
Superman is able to fly at such speeds, that he can enter hyperspace effortlessly.
PC Superman was so powerful that he could alter time itself without even trying.
PC Supes was able to travel trillions of miles in SECONDS without exerting any effort at all.
PC Supes easily threw a neutron star several light years away. He claims that the star weighed Trillions of tons and that it exerted a magnetic pull greater then dozens of Supernovas, but this didn’t affect him in the slightest.
PC Superman threw moon-sized balls of ice at the Earth, where all the oceans had been dried up.
Superman was able to fly through the time barrier and go millions of years into the past on a whim.
While PC Clark was in disguise he was confronted by the Joker who released an enormous amount of his laughing gas. Supes was able to inhale all of the gas before it contaminated anyone........he wasn’t laughing.
PC Supes brushed off the explosion of a nuclear warhead which could have vaporized the entire East coast.
PC Clark could move so fast that he appeared invisible.
This is a pretty impressive speed feat. Though not as impressive as some of his others, PC Supes shows that he is easily able to fly next to a space ship to make sure it got out of Earth’s orbit with no complications..... It’s a speed feat because the average speed of a space shuttle when leaving the atmosphere is around 23,000 mph.
With the sword in his hand, Supeman's cape deflected the most powerful blast King Kosmos could muster, it was a blast that could have altered reality itself, yet it was blocked by Superman’s clothing.
Superman (after nearly killing King Kosmos out of anger) decides that this sword which was present at the dawn of time, cannot be controlled as a seperate entity, so at this point he actually starts merging with the sword. Superman remarks on how it has power of which he has NEVER felt. Before Superman completely merged himself with Infinity (the sword) he stopped just as he got to its hilt, and decided he no longer needed to merge with the sword, so he threw the remainder of it into deep space. Why did Superman stop merging with the sword you ask? In the midst of Superman fusing with the sword, he heard a Godly voice (either Jor-El or God himself), and this voice spoke of Superman's greatness.
“Your greatness among living things is assured. So shall it EVER be”. Had Superman merged with this sword, he would have become one with all of the universe.
PC Superman displays his super-intellect by learning a long dead, yet incredibly sophisticated language (which he had never heard before); instantly.
PC Supes caught meteorites, and moved around planet-sized asteroids effortlessly.
These next feats are from centuries in the future. PC Superman is now a bearded old man, but he is still alive, and as powerful as ever.

Bruce Wayne has long since been dead, but Superman saved some astronauts who were on a mission in deep space for Wayne Enterprises.
The astronaut says to Superman: “I thought you were dead!" to which Superman replies: “I tried that once, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be." PC Superman could apparently choose whether or not he wanted to live or die.
Not even Flash was fast enough to punch PC Supes...YES...back in the day, Superman was MUCH faster than the Flash.
The Guardians send Superman on a special mission to preserve the Galactic Balance of Nature. Superman is not at full power during this event, as the part of the Galaxy he is flying through was full of red stars. Despite this, Superman was still strong enough to make a small planet by fusing meteorites together, and then proceeds to move it.
Superman intercepted a bomb that was meant to destroy the Earth and wasn’t harmed at all.
He moved the moon before.
A Supernova only dazes Superman for a micro second. He then finds himself in an unknown solar system and proceeds to drill his way to the center of a planet.
PC Superman could actually create a tiny version of himself, an avatar so to speak, which was endowed with all of his powers (but he loses his powers if he does it).
Superman one time defeated the Galactic Golem. The Galactic Golem is the monstrous result of Lex Luthor’s attempt to create life by collecting galactic matter into the form of a man. Infusing his creation with a hunger for the hyper-stellar energy that made its creation possible. During this battle Superman uses the Golem’s own energy-radiation to speed up his vibrations and shift every living thing on the Earth to another dimensional plane.
Superman balances a replica of the Empire State building with just his pinky.
Superman’s Fortress of Solitude contained an entire solar system he created by himself.
PC Kryptonians could travel between dimensions and universes at will.
Superman and Power Girl easily defeat creatures that had conquered entire worlds.
Maaldor, a powerful cosmic being who had existed for billions of years and conquered an entire universe, refers to Superman and Power Girl as the two most powerful beings in the multiverse. He tries to kill Power Girl, then Superman fights him and it states that Maaldor shrugs off attacks that could reduce a planet to rubble, and replies with attacks that have been used for just that purpose. Superman is fine, and it turns out that Power Girl survived.
Superman and Power Girl trick Maaldor into confronting his own soul which causes him to self-destruct and create an entire new universe from the remains of his energy. Superman sealed off that universe from the rest of the multiverse with his heat vision.
A rogue Superboy robot grabbed Superman and flew him thousands of miles into space in a fraction of a second, then flings him faster than light across the solar system. He can’t turn around until he reaches Uranus, but he still gets back in only a matter of minutes.
Superman contained a nuclear bomb with his cape.
Superman contained a supernova explosion.
Easily survived a 10 megaton bomb.
Is only knocked back slightly by a gravitational force that could move a planet.
Used some extra energy to reignite a dying Sun.
Casually flew past galaxies in seconds.
Superman moved a star with his breath.
Superman turned a diamond into a piece of coal by altering it’s molecular pattern.


i'm not even close to impressed

goky >
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Jul 22 2016 08:07am
Quote (Devil_kin @ Jul 23 2016 01:05am)
i'm not even close to impressed

goky >


Problem is superman is a genius and goku is a moron, supes is immune to just about everything that goku is weak to (Suns, energy beams, disease) and superman is white so he has white privilege.
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Jul 22 2016 08:08am
Quote (HimynameisMatt @ 22 Jul 2016 08:07)
Problem is superman is a genius and goku is a moron, supes is immune to just about everything that goku is weak to (Suns, energy beams, disease) and superman is white so he has white privilege.


what goku lacks in smarts and privilege he makes up for in heart and courage
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Jul 22 2016 08:11am
Quote (Devil_kin @ Jul 23 2016 01:08am)
what goku lacks in smarts and privilege he makes up for in heart and courage


Both of which superman is also pretty well known for :D
Just face it, supermans cisgender white male privilege will win out over goku's heart and courage, i mean goku is a saiyan and apparently vegeta was the only smart saiyan ever born the rest are pretty huge morons, so goku does not even have asian smarts working for him like other anime characters.
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Jul 22 2016 08:13am
Quote (HimynameisMatt @ 22 Jul 2016 08:11)
Both of which superman is also pretty well known for :D
Just face it, supermans cisgender white male privilege will win out over goku's heart and courage, i mean goku is a saiyan and apparently vegeta was the only smart saiyan ever born the rest are pretty huge morons, so goku does not even have asian smarts working for him like other anime characters.


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