Quote (RewtheBrave @ Jun 25 2013 06:13am)
I don't know how Paul feels about the points of feedback that you provided here (but I am sure he has either seen/heard them or anticipated them in some form already). Perhaps you could raise his interest by speaking to him and providing your analysis. You're a sensitive and intelligent person, and even if I disagreed with you on points of criticism about a game I created, I think I would pause and consider your ideas. I'm not Paul, and I really don't know the game inside and out, but I can appreciate your appeal
My general sense is that you are correct in your perception of the game's general decline in terms of being played. The ideas you brought up have occurred to me before, and Rick certainly agrees on the major points. Perhaps Paul has addressed these ideas already?
Yeah on the one side im quite sure he heard about the problems in the game that got worse and worse,
since its easy to see the average number of people online in ls dropped from about 200+ to maybe 20 or even less now.
But one the other side, its one thing to know about it and another to find the right solution to stop it and ultimately improve things.
The recent updates imply that he is working on a more solo based game for instance ( more prof, more exp, objectives for solo etc. )
People were suggesting this already for a LONG time before until it finally happened. I dont know, maybe it just happened too late.
There was this phase when absolutely nothing happened for over a year, just waiting for the "big update". But it just never came.
And this was the time where a lot of players turned their back on the game because they saw it dying and no chance for it to get better.
The prices went down, player numbers went down... and just nothing was happening. Just more and more old players selling out.
It just speeded up the process of item value in a small community that is anyway very quickly effected with any market changes.
Before that, we had some updates people absolutely didnt like, like dex nerf, ls nerf etc. because it turned their gear worthless.
Its hard to tell... on the one side the game should develop and get more depth, and those items were in the way of it.
On the other side, people spend lots of fg on them and lost it. Its understandable i think people didnt like that.
In my view, the main problem was how it was stated like: play this game how i make it or leave. well, people left...
they felt betrayed in a way because they lost their items and didnt have any say in how the game would be like.
and as a player, if i dont like a game i just wont play it any more.
I remember in old days, people made suggestions on ls subforum. People read them, gave constructive feedback.
Paul read them, too, posted his opinion and if he liked them, added them to the game.
People felt heard and integrated to the developement of the game.
We always had a really small community in comparison to other games with hundreds and thousands of players.
This has pros and cons... but i would say a BIG pro is that one can work closer with the community like this, its more familiar.
But unfortunately, this didnt happen any more for some reasons.
Being part of the community since it started and especially writing guides and working with lots of beginners during all the time,
i saw that process evolve over the past years. The last ~ 2 years certainly being the worst of that:
In a way, the community destroyed the game itself. Because people would CRY no matter what. The game is too hard, i cant kill monsters, i cant find good items etc.
So the game was made easier, a LOT easier. But it just got too easy that there was no more challenge and good items lost their value as they werent needed.
Along with the decrease in community size, we got the market collapse we now have. So then people cried they cant make fg from this game.
As there was less fg floating around, it got way harder to pay the vault also. and especially the transfer days for a guild vault.
i used to have 1000 vault slots for glyphing. but now... im struggeling to get 25 because i cant finance it any more.
When we had this vault drama ( there was a bug with the vault discount that allowed to get a multiple YEAR lasting vault for quite low fg )
another gap was created because the vault got adjusted then, again lots of people felt betrayed, flamed and left the game afterwards.
Another issue for sure was the lag. As a skiller, this effected myself a LOT as well. Im not an expert who can tell the solution to solve it,
but for sure it was another really big problem that caused a lot of people to quit the game because they lost gear or fun with hard lag spikes.
these are just some milestones i remember just now that lead to the point we are at today.
It is like a coin with 2 sides. There is Paul on one, who put a lot of effort and work into creating this game and developing it.
And there is the community on the other who put a lot effort into playing the game and also actively wanting to help develope it.
But this coin ( aka the game ladder slasher ) can just exist with both sides working together, not against.
Now... at some point we had updates the community didnt like at all, as i mentioned earlier. And this is when the general tone began to decrease.
People flamed and cried about it and either quit or just stayed to make trouble, its kinda when the ls forum trolls began to rise here.
From then on, several people would flame ANY update that came no matter what, always looking for the hair in the soup.
Feedback is always great and the best way to develop things, but it has to be constructive and not destructive like it was.
So Paul began to close update threads at once to prevent that spam. And its undestanable, no one like to be flamed for the hard work he does.
Problem was... people began to make own topics then and it fired their anger even more. Which again wasnt nice for Paul.
And people began to flame each other over updates, opinions and just anything turned into a spam fest.
Personally, i can just say that i always liked to read the ls subforum, posted myself and all that. But when these things began to get worse,
i stopped posting like i used to because it is indeed not very fun to see any positive meant thread, be it my own or others, turn into spam.
Before that, i cant really remember any problems in the ls subforum, the tone was friendly and cooperative. But that just changed.
One also needs to understand the positive core group of the community though who did not participate, yet got punished indirectly as well.
Not everyone flamed. There were a lot people who tried to give constructive feedback, as they loved to play the game and wanted to help make it better.
But since such discussions always were spoiled by the trolls, there was no more discussions. Suggestions were mainly not read any more or implemented.
And also this part of the community felt more and more ignored, as they were not integrated in the process of the game like they once were.
I remember when dropping a PM with a suggestion, i had an answer on it within 24 hours at the most. And not few of these were added to the game.
But i havent received any reply on suggestions for over a year and the same happeny to most suggestions on the forums unfortunately.
So as it seems, there is a widening gap between players and creator right now and this will not work out in the long run.
I cant tell why exactly, but only assume that after all those spam he just doesnt want to waste time any more with all of that and decided to develop the game alone.
But then we have the old problem with the small community wanting to have a say in the way the game is made.
The only way out of it would be a compromise probably. Paul making a step towards the community and give them a chance to have a say.
And the community making a step towards Paul by giving constructive feedback, give helpful suggestions and help to keep the tone friendly.
Its risky, as there will of course be those trolls who dont care and will just try to spoil it. But these just need to be punished strictly to make a statement.
I see a lot of good potential, e.g. with the contests Rick makes to find a certain monster and its skill. We used to have a lot of competition like that back then.
Races to a certain level, guild races and what not. It helped to give extra motivation and especially bring a lot fun. We need more of this again!
The path is stony, no question. Its going to be hard to make old players who turned their back return or find new players to come to the game and stay.
But one needs to try at least because if things dont change this game is just going to die out slowly and this would just be a pity.
It just needs all of those in the community to work together, also by giving new players a change and not just kick them from their groups,
IF they show the dedication to help making a group work and not just sitting in the game with their tier 1 gear and make others do the work.
One needs to keep in mind: the only way this game can grow again is with old players return and get new players in, so its a good "investment" to help them.
I guess a lot of the problems we have now had never happened if the game had stayed how it was like 4, 5 years ago, that had been the easy way.
But had it really? Other games come and go as well and there are just really few games that never changed themselves but still got timeless nostalgia.
No one can tell if the old ladder slasher had become one of them or not and we would have the same discussion today asking why nothing happened.
So i would say, it was the right thing to reinvent the game and try to bring it into new spheres.
In the real world, stagnation always means regression because the world never stops moving... it takes courage to move on and leave the path behind for new ways,
but as history has proven, milestones were never created by those who just followed a known path, but by those who left it and encountered new areas!
Anyway, this turned into another wall of text, but i hope it just helps because i would love to see this game become what it used to be again.