@hedonism
"Those truly deserving of the tag would act out of kindness because it's the right thing to do, not only because they are seeking some sort of reward for their behavior."
Right, and many who don't get some recognition eventually and are not a newbie/suspect/slimeball at some point feel slighted (fairly enough), as was stated earlier by one of the old members I believe (maybe a trusted) some get the tag by being worthy and some get it by being unworthy and happening to know people (aka good old boys club). So your point, while true in the sense that communism works in a utopia, is not realistic. Very few people ever get a trusted tag, so the rest of us who are honest but don't play actively enough to get noticed, and don't like to go bragging about our every good deed to the world until someone gets sick of us, we get stuck in limbo or worse we get harassed for trying to play the game and offer legitimate work for legitimate pay.
@DoomOnYou
If it has nothing to do with preserving your frat house and perks, setup a situation in which I can post a thread offering to provide a service in exchange for forum gold. Our clan ubers most days, and while it is not always perfect, we get the job done, everytime we do it. As an aside to the honesty of most members, while we are conscious about who we allow into the games, we've only had one or two people skip out and not pay on us, which is out of ALOT of grushed levelers.
So the vast majority of the people we've ubered have done nothing but been honest players who wanted to pay a bit and get quickly leveled. And we've leveled them, just as honestly. So give me a reason why it's so much easier to scam someone with a service as opposed to saying I'll sell you these SoJ's, you send first you have less posts/time/whatever and subsequently bolting out of a game? Since it's only a matter of trust for you guys and has nothing to do with preventing other people from infringing on your oligopoly of offering service without specific request.
I'd respectfully like to hear a good, solid, well though out argument for that. Not "well we can't determine scams like we can with trades", because that isn't gonna hold water. Screenshots work just as well, so long as you take them properly as a grusher and grushee. And subsequently not because "well we can't sit in a game and mediate it for hours", because you could specifically set up a "use at your own risk, don't cry to us" forum for untrusted service offerings. That would be equally fine.
And yes, we could go and get vouches by the dozens from happy customers, but what's the point if we still cannot post the damned service without getting it closed? Sit for 8 hours a day on the forum and poke around looking for the requests? Doesn't work for casual players.
Other than these points, I'll leave this thread for Paul to review, when and if he has time, because it seems most all the arguments have been vetted and talking about the old arguments over again is just going to result in more of the same and make this already long thread that much more painful.
Thanks for the debate.
Big edit to catch up on all the posts I missed:
@wassabi-69
What other factors? Thanks for the respecful opinion. Nice to see.
An oligopoly is where a very small fraction of the population controls a very large fraction of the resources in a particular industry, thus having an advantage massively difficult to overcome. Think Microsoft vs Software Industry.
This is the current system, where our posts can be closes for service offers on a whim because it's "sorta against the rules but not really worth a warn because we are offering most of the time a quite legitimate and honest service so just give them a verbal unless they do it a bunch so people do it until they get a verbal then stop for a while.".
It's ridiculous.
"Just BE trusted and if you don't get it in 2-3 years it is no reason to change your behavior..just continue to be as you were regardless of the blue letters."
I agree, it's a great sentiment. It's extremely frustrating for most however, and not realistic. Like a progress bar that never moves. Level 99 in diablo 2 now a days, who gets there without the crutch? Virtually none.
@Sylvanas
I don't know the history of that but I've heard the rumors from my guildies. Excellent reference. Even 100% is not 100%. Ever.
eebay style would be another good alternative. It could be worked, like any other - but again the cheaters would be obvious in all but the most deliberate of cases. Nothing is 100%.
Item poofing, another nice reason to use an eebay system. This could be abused, yes. Everything can be abused if you try hard enough.
@FarticusUD
Yes, it is far too black and white currently. Because if you are not white, you are black. At the very least, a very dark shade of grey. The current system is very discouraging, if you do not intend to play 8 hours a day for quite a while.
Yes the godz syndrome is why many people become pricks, or at least callous to trying to work within the limits of the system. It's fruitless work for most.
@hedonism
The help documents? You're honestly gonna tell me even 5 out of 100 people have read the help documents and concurrently don't form their own opinions about Trusted tag vs normal member? Most don't get past line one of the user agreement. C'mon, stop with the perfect utopian arguments.
"This is why we have mediators. They donate their free time to make the situation you are describing a little better. Use them! :)"
Yes, unfortunately for service type situations this doesn't work well, and is at the very least extrodinarily awkward for all parties involved. It's quite awkward as is for trades, people want to trade, not sit and wait playing PM tag for 20 minutes to make a trade. That's why most go unmediated.
This post was edited by crapped on Apr 3 2009 02:14am