Quote (RewtheBrave @ Aug 28 2011 05:33pm)

IP sharing has nothing to do with being tagged; guilt by association is decided by the guilt of the association, not by IP address; IP doesn't even deserve mention here. And to disambiguate 'good deeds', the deed is not good unless the person has really made a change. Because doing acts that benefit others doesn't mean that the person who performs the acts is doing it out of goodwill, such acts are impossible to judge in terms of 'good' or 'bad' in their own right. A good person could have a lapse and scam, too, but that out-of-character act is what matters in terms of red tags. To be sure, I don't mind the idea of a forum for people with red tags to try to redeem themselves; in fact, one already exists. However, that forum isn't about posts or services. It just exists to start the process.

Further, if someone does something to get a Scammer tag, I don't think that person should know exactly how the tag can be removed or how long that might take; otherwise, the person could exploit the system just to get un-tagged. Instead, I think it should remain a process and a mystery. Good deeds--truly good deeds--should be a part of the process. But any special place designed to specify, invoke, promote and judge those good deeds will be problematic if it's too specific or narrow. So the suggestion in this topic doesn't work for me in its current form. Maybe there's some other way to frame the idea that's at heart here (namely, redemption through good deeds). I think the current system works really well, exactly because it enables the possibility of getting un-tagged without giving away all of the ingredients. It allows the person who made a mistake or who did something wrong to start making the right choices. In the end getting un-tagged is up to the person who got the red tag(s); he or she just doesn't always realize it. It isn't a conscious choice, because it involves doing enough (whatever it is) to be redeemed. I wouldn't want it any other way.



Don't fault yourself for trying to help others

Quote (magerange836 @ 28 Aug 2011 19:49)

very nice. i actualy read all of that just so you know, and yes like i said the whole exploit wouldnt be a problem if there only givin 1 chance till its back to regular payment, im not saying you should take out the
red tag system, im simply aplying an alternativ kinda like parol, or comunity service, why do we take comunity service irl instead of locking em away, its becuase its harsh and unreasanable we have an amendment on it, why not have that same alternative for this forum, fail the service and youl be forever locked or pay out of your pocket.

Quote (RewtheBrave @ Aug 28 2011 06:41pm)

If someone is tagged forever due to one mistake in the "parol" service, it could be a big loss for the community down the road. If someone is punished harshly, it doesn't always work out as a deterrent, especially if the reward for good service during the harsh punishment is known to the person. d2jsp has grown over time, and the same can be said for its treatment of people with tags. While the same basic principles have always applied, the Scammer Accusation team has evolved to get better at treating scam cases. That's not to say that it couldn't improve, but I think that any suggestion to improve it is going to have to work with the current system. I suppose a revolution is possible, but the idea would have to be ridiculously good. d2jsp is highly synthetic, in the sense that the rules and policies of the site all relate to one another. Not everyone sees how this works, but it works. njaguar has a specific vision for the site, and this becomes clearer the more you become acquainted with the site, its history and its practices. It's really nice to see that someone who is new and who has 20% warn is thinking about how to improve the site. Please keep thinking of ways to help.

In the meantime, please check the signature rules and the trade rules (ahem!). By following the rules you will come closer to a full understanding of how they work and how they might be improved in the future. EDIT: and please check the profile rules.

Quote (RewtheBrave @ Aug 28 2011 06:41pm)

If someone is tagged forever due to one mistake in the "parol" service, it could be a big loss for the community down the road. If someone is punished harshly, it doesn't always work out as a deterrent, especially if the reward for good service during the harsh punishment is known to the person. d2jsp has grown over time, and the same can be said for its treatment of people with tags. While the same basic principles have always applied, the Scammer Accusation team has evolved to get better at treating scam cases. That's not to say that it couldn't improve, but I think that any suggestion to improve it is going to have to work with the current system. I suppose a revolution is possible, but the idea would have to be ridiculously good. d2jsp is highly synthetic, in the sense that the rules and policies of the site all relate to one another. Not everyone sees how this works, but it works. njaguar has a specific vision for the site, and this becomes clearer the more you become acquainted with the site, its history and its practices. It's really nice to see that someone who is new and who has 20% warn is thinking about how to improve the site. Please keep thinking of ways to help.

In the meantime, please check the signature rules and the trade rules (ahem!). By following the rules you will come closer to a full understanding of how they work and how they might be improved in the future. EDIT: and please check the profile rules.

Quote (carteblanche @ Aug 28 2011 09:43pm)

personally i think scammers who are unlocked should get a new tag like Reformed Scammer or something to indicate they scammed in the past.

Quote (RewtheBrave @ Aug 28 2011 05:33pm)

IP sharing has nothing to do with being tagged; guilt by association is decided by the guilt of the association, not by IP address; IP doesn't even deserve mention here. And to disambiguate 'good deeds', the deed is not good unless the person has really made a change. Because doing acts that benefit others doesn't mean that the person who performs the acts is doing it out of goodwill, such acts are impossible to judge in terms of 'good' or 'bad' in their own right. A good person could have a lapse and scam, too, but that out-of-character act is what matters in terms of red tags. To be sure, I don't mind the idea of a forum for people with red tags to try to redeem themselves; in fact, one already exists. However, that forum isn't about posts or services. It just exists to start the process.

Further, if someone does something to get a Scammer tag, I don't think that person should know exactly how the tag can be removed or how long that might take; otherwise, the person could exploit the system just to get un-tagged. Instead, I think it should remain a process and a mystery. Good deeds--truly good deeds--should be a part of the process. But any special place designed to specify, invoke, promote and judge those good deeds will be problematic if it's too specific or narrow. So the suggestion in this topic doesn't work for me in its current form. Maybe there's some other way to frame the idea that's at heart here (namely, redemption through good deeds). I think the current system works really well, exactly because it enables the possibility of getting un-tagged without giving away all of the ingredients. It allows the person who made a mistake or who did something wrong to start making the right choices. In the end getting un-tagged is up to the person who got the red tag(s); he or she just doesn't always realize it. It isn't a conscious choice, because it involves doing enough (whatever it is) to be redeemed. I wouldn't want it any other way.



Don't fault yourself for trying to help others

Quote (brute12 @ Aug 28 2011 08:26pm)

I would imagine the amount of people with low amounts of fg who are locked would just make new accounts and offer services full price to make up fg, and trusting a scammmer do perform a service well, especially with hardcore game modes would be unwise. When you pay for something there is insurance that it will be done to match the payment, done for free means nothing to lose which could end badly. I do think it would be helpful for a subforum or system that lets them offer services for fg to repay scams, idk if you can send fg to locked people ive never tried