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Sep 17 2024 11:23am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 17 2024 12:19pm)
You can't cede control like that though. Ceding monetary policy to developed sovereigns by pegging your currency to the dollar or whatever, you at least know that country's currency is somewhat stable. With BTC going from 15k to 60k back to 20k back to 60k and be at the mercy of miners and other eternal regulators, you would be wrecking your economy, exports, etc.


sure but those levels of variance are better than many failed country currencies. Zimbabwe had to issue a 100 trillion dollar note in the mid 2000s global recession.

it also allows the government to collect and hold via taxes an asset that is far more valuable than their own dollar, peso, or w/e they issue. the currency market has awful margins for currencies like theirs, but 1 btc = 1 btc, even if 1 btc = 20k or 60k. they can even sell off holdings to hold USD, gold, or w/e.
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Sep 17 2024 11:26am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 17 2024 05:23pm)
but 1 btc = 1 btc

wrong again

This post was edited by moonbeam420 on Sep 17 2024 11:27am
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Sep 17 2024 11:27am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 17 2024 10:03am)
not everyone lives in a country with a premier currency, let alone the USA with the world reserve currency. areas like south america or africa with currencies that are regularly hyperinflated are the best usecase for BTC currently.


My question is why not then just hold US dollars instead? If the only use of Bitcoin is to trade for US dollars why have the middleman? Is Bitcoin not just a proxy for USD?
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Sep 17 2024 11:27am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 17 2024 12:19pm)
You can't cede control like that though. Ceding monetary policy to developed sovereigns by pegging your currency to the dollar or whatever, you at least know that country's currency is somewhat stable. With BTC going from 15k to 60k back to 20k back to 60k and be at the mercy of miners and other eternal regulators, you would be wrecking your economy, exports, etc.


This seems like a good argument on the surface however many of these shit tier countries have currency fluctuations of similar magnitudes over the last decade

I mean even look at a country as seemingly stable as Japan, currently it’s around .007 yen:usd. Peaked at close to .01 and bottomed at close to .006, all within the last 4 years. When you expand to 3rd world nations the fluctuations become increasingly extreme
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Sep 17 2024 11:28am
Quote (moonbeam420 @ Sep 17 2024 10:17am)
100% this
people ain't even using bitcoin no more

literally title of btc whitepaper was "P2P digital cash"
it should have been able to do more tx/s than mastercard and cheap to transact but they kept the "temporary blocksize limit" that as per satoshi literally was just meant to be temporary but 14 years later and it's still there cause btc development been hijacked and what once was supposed to just be a temp thing is now praised by those people like some religious zealots in a cult living in the past "gotta follow the scriptures of the bible (original WIP code) and ignoring what their own jesus-like figure (satoshi) wanted to keep developing

now bitcoin is not even bitcoin but the ecosystem around it with exchanges acting as banks and that's what people are now calling "bitcoin"

it indeed is now a ponzi scheme without its original usecase of p2p digital cash no more but just a speculative ponzi scheme asset for people to speculate on its price through those centralized entities


Yeah I mean if it cannot be used as digital cash, what exactly is the point? That's what it's sold as right, I mean coin is literally in the name.

I have yet to hear any logical argument why it isn't a Ponzi scheme, and I am presently 100% convinced that anyone who praises Bitcoin only is doing so because they hold it and want the value to increase
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Sep 17 2024 11:30am
Quote (El1te @ Sep 17 2024 05:27pm)
My question is why not then just hold US dollars instead? If the only use of Bitcoin is to trade for US dollars why have the middleman? Is Bitcoin not just a proxy for USD?

lol exactly
even trump being all like "bitcoin is not a threat to the dollar but can help the dollar"
while originally it was meant to actually disrupt the financial system and actually be a threat to the dollat lmao
those people are in a ponzi scheme cult
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Sep 17 2024 11:31am
Quote (El1te @ Sep 17 2024 12:27pm)
My question is why not then just hold US dollars instead? If the only use of Bitcoin is to trade for US dollars why have the middleman? Is Bitcoin not just a proxy for USD?


because you'd then need to buy a lot of USD, and what do you buy it with? and you'd need to constantly resupply the masses with literal coins and bills, a massive % of US currency is removed from the market yearly here due to damage.

you run venezuala, you're going to buy like a literal trainload of cash and coins? i dont think so.
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Sep 17 2024 11:31am
Quote (El1te @ Sep 17 2024 12:27pm)
My question is why not then just hold US dollars instead? If the only use of Bitcoin is to trade for US dollars why have the middleman? Is Bitcoin not just a proxy for USD?


You have to think of it as a commodity not rlly just a currency. It’s the only way valuation makes sense. It may very well be a Ponzi scheme but the reality is the worlds finance and technology markets have now spent billions of dollars developing infrastructure around this. There is serious financial incentive to not let this experiment fail
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Sep 17 2024 11:32am
Quote (Bazi @ Sep 17 2024 01:27pm)
This seems like a good argument on the surface however many of these shit tier countries have currency fluctuations of similar magnitudes over the last decade

I mean even look at a country as seemingly stable as Japan, currently it’s around .007 yen:usd. Peaked at close to .01 and bottomed at close to .006, all within the last 4 years. When you expand to 3rd world nations the fluctuations become increasingly extreme


Pegging is typically done to stable currencies only though. Like the USD, Euro, Swiss Franc, etc. It cedes control of monetary policy to that countries central bank so when the US fed decides to cut rates, which devalues the dollar, your 3rd world country currency also gets devalued.

Personally, IMO if i was chief economist in some of these places, and wanted currency stability, that's the way I'd run the country. This makes you much less flexible to address economic concerns though. So like if there's a recession and you want to expand the monetary supply, you may have to break that peg. But again comparing it to BTC, I'd 100% chose to peg to dollar than completely switch to BTC.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Sep 17 2024 11:35am
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Sep 17 2024 11:37am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Sep 17 2024 12:32pm)
Pegging is typically done to stable currencies only though. Like the USD, Euro, Swiss Franc, etc. It cedes control of monetary policy to that countries central bank so when the US fed decides to cut rates, which devalues the dollars, your 3rd world country currency also gets devalued.

Personally, IMO if i was chief economist in some of these places, and wanted currency stability, that's the way I'd run the country. This makes you much less flexible to address economic concerns though. So like if there's a recession and you want to expand the monetary supply, you may have to break that peg. But again comparing it to BTC, I'd 100% chose to peg to dollar than completely switch to BTC.


As you said in the scenario where you choose the dollar, you are increasingly dependent on US foreign policy and politics. Btc is at least 1 layer removed from that level of control, even if the US strongly overall dictates the direction of btc anyway.

Additionally even more zoomed out, pegging to the USD remains a risk until the US debt answer becomes clearer. Decades have past sure but whether it’s our generation, or our children’s, the bill comes do
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