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Dec 9 2025 08:41am
Ring has been sold. :locked:
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Sick one mate
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I know one would find mostly forum warriors on a forum :evil: , but is there somebody who can rise up to the challenge of fighting a hell bovine, then hovering their mouse over attack rating,
and truthfully reporting the difference in in hit chance between 1 and 2 angelic rings, for a high level barby.
Will it be Δ6% like for a lvl 72 barb or will it be something unexpected?

After all, it's possible that the chances overall increase with a higher level, but the difference between between 1 and 2 rings does not. That would be my speculative prediction, thanks to level dependent scaling of AR on angelics and just massive AR differences.


58% chance vs diablo at 91 with only 2.7k ar

This post was edited by macohan on Dec 9 2025 05:23pm
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58% chance vs diablo at 91 with only 2.7k ar


Suppose the chance to hit were 88%, with a sensible AR, so a 30% increase. It's like comparing a 200% ED mart (183-297) to a 98% ED (120-196) martel.
Probability math is very unintuitive, I suspect people think as long as i'm above 50% I'm in the green or something like that. True enough. Still, mathematically, chance is just another multiplier that is applied at the end.
Ignoring attack speed for the sake of simplicity, the damage that is displayed in the character screen is multiplied with the chance to give you expected damage.

Suppose somebody goes to great effort to obtain a high damage Mart, but then completely wrecks himself with a 0.58 multiplier, by way of a pathetic attack rating. It's a sad tale, really. :cry:
Granted, it's lvl 90 Diablo and chances to hit are higher with the rest of CS rabble, which is why I suggest hell cows as a benchmark.
Cow area level (78) is same as CS area level and there is an entire herd...

Hit chance x (displayed damage - elemental adds) gives you actual=expected damage, that's all there is to it. All we need to agree is just a benchmark enemy, to avoid confusion.

Comparing gear by punching these numbers into a spread sheet for my barb, I can see that it's preferable damage wise to use angelics and Sigon helm (+belt) to a tarnhelm+angelics, for instance, although the scores are 1223 and 1233 almost identical and a +str belt may even swing this.
Maybe there is a case to be made for using one angelic ring and sigon combo with leech ring (but it cuts the scrore to 1191) using just one angelic ring 1120. We are still within 9% differences here overall, that is still not something one would notice.

For my Barb@74 vis-a-vis a hell bovine the chance gap between 1 angelic and 2 angelic rings between the displayed Chance is 6% (85%-79%), but it would be interesting to see if it narrows significantly at higher lvl. If it doesn't than a 6% boon is still more than any other item can provide.
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Dec 10 2025 10:58am
Suppose the chance to hit were 88%, with a sensible AR, so a 30% increase. It's like comparing a 200% ED mart (183-297) to a 98% ED (120-196) martel.
Probability math is very unintuitive, I suspect people think as long as i'm above 50% I'm in the green or something like that. True enough. Still, mathematically, chance is just another multiplier that is applied at the end.
Ignoring attack speed for the sake of simplicity, the damage that is displayed in the character screen is multiplied with the chance to give you expected damage.

Suppose somebody goes to great effort to obtain a high damage Mart, but then completely wrecks himself with a 0.58 multiplier, by way of a pathetic attack rating. It's a sad tale, really. :cry:
Granted, it's lvl 90 Diablo and chances to hit are higher with the rest of CS rabble, which is why I suggest hell cows as a benchmark.
Cow area level (78) is same as CS area level and there is an entire herd...

Hit chance x (displayed damage - elemental adds) gives you actual=expected damage, that's all there is to it. All we need to agree is just a benchmark enemy, to avoid confusion.

Comparing gear by punching these numbers into a spread sheet for my barb, I can see that it's preferable damage wise to use angelics and Sigon helm (+belt) to a tarnhelm+angelics, for instance, although the scores are 1223 and 1233 almost identical and a +str belt may even swing this.
Maybe there is a case to be made for using one angelic ring and sigon combo with leech ring (but it cuts the scrore to 1191) using just one angelic ring 1120. We are still within 9% differences here overall, that is still not something one would notice.

For my Barb@74 vis-a-vis a hell bovine the chance gap between 1 angelic and 2 angelic rings between the displayed Chance is 6% (85%-79%), but it would be interesting to see if it narrows significantly at higher lvl. If it doesn't than a 6% boon is still more than any other item can provide.


i understand the math just fine you are using a really poor example is all
you dont need 20k ar beyond lvl 87 was the point i was making you would rather have more skills/leech/dmg/str/life/res on the jewelry slots
i purposefully chose bare minimum ar amount on an all rare gear setup to prove that point

Code
% Chance to hit = 100 * 2 * (alvl / (alvl+dlvl) ) * (AR / (AR+DR) )
alvl=attacker lvl
dlvl=defender lvl
ar=attack rating
dr=defense

notice that the lvl based component of the formula is the exact same factor as the ar and dr component but lvl values are much lower than ar and dr values so lvl difference scales much harder than gaining 10x ar
fun fact a -50% monster defense debuff is easier to achieve than gaining 1.5x ar and yields the same hitchance result

area lvl means nothing in classic its all monster lvl based
cs monster lvls are higher than cows and THE classic farm area not cows

back to that -% defense buff...lvl 1 battle cry exists giving you -50% defense debuff which is worth as thousands of ar and practically free
when you get some lvl 93+ barbs you will understand better or plug in values to that formula to see the effect of each stat
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Dec 10 2025 11:32am
People who pop trav and cs with Angie's are broke bums with no style points. They probably use irathas on their sorc and a shard in their hammer din. They probably only use goldskin for an armor
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Dec 10 2025 06:05pm
...


Basically your choices as a barb are: Zero 800+AR Set items, or 1, 2, 3, 4 of them. I stated that you ought to have at least 2, or you leave lots of that potential chance on the table between 58 % which you kindly provided and max 95% chance.
made of a mockery of it (sorry!), to drive home the point that it's insufficient.

At the most basic level I'm trying to convey that AR and resulting hit chance are basically same as damage modifiers (literally you get expected damage),
yet somehow people were convinced by decades old guides that they aren't (or aren't worthwhile). These old convictions should be able to stand up to some scrutiny.

Anybody can make the experiment and see if the chance-to-hit readout changes as they swap in angelic rings and sigon, hsarus, berserker parts, but nobody is willing... All it takes is two points of data to disprove or soften my claim, for the high level edge case.

And what I've posted so far are more or less facts, suggestions to cooperate and numerical facts, what would be the point to challenge or deny this?

I'm open to discussions of curves and calculus, but I do mistrust these types of interpretations, without a plot or the knowledge of all the variables.
If I fill those unknowns with a 1, i get 2 * 1/2 * 1/2, 50 %. We have basically two fractions(factors) multiplied with 2. They are factors, why should 10/(10+10) scale differently than 1000/(1000+1000)?

IF anything level differences hardly moves the needle away from the default 1/2, towards the max of 1, whereas AR is influenced heavily by gear choice. DR is unknown, so..... and this might be the pvp formula anyway.
It's a nifty formula, but how much can be divined from it? I could fill in the gaps, or I can determine cow DR, by reverse engineering from the displayed chance, AR and LvL.

It would be easier to just test/demonstrate the chance gap for angelic rings on a high level barb.
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Dec 10 2025 06:34pm
Could use the build planner to demonstrate or theory craft
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/

Pretty sure the core Diablo 2 calculations are the same


Nice ring no spam

This post was edited by FaDeadly on Dec 10 2025 06:34pm
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Dec 10 2025 10:49pm
Basically your choices as a barb are: Zero 800+AR Set items, or 1, 2, 3, 4 of them. I stated that you ought to have at least 2, or you leave lots of that potential chance on the table between 58 % which you kindly provided and max 95% chance.
made of a mockery of it (sorry!), to drive home the point that it's insufficient.

At the most basic level I'm trying to convey that AR and resulting hit chance are basically same as damage modifiers (literally you get expected damage),
yet somehow people were convinced by decades old guides that they aren't (or aren't worthwhile). These old convictions should be able to stand up to some scrutiny.

Anybody can make the experiment and see if the chance-to-hit readout changes as they swap in angelic rings and sigon, hsarus, berserker parts, but nobody is willing... All it takes is two points of data to disprove or soften my claim, for the high level edge case.

And what I've posted so far are more or less facts, suggestions to cooperate and numerical facts, what would be the point to challenge or deny this?

I'm open to discussions of curves and calculus, but I do mistrust these types of interpretations, without a plot or the knowledge of all the variables.
If I fill those unknowns with a 1, i get 2 * 1/2 * 1/2, 50 %. We have basically two fractions(factors) multiplied with 2. They are factors, why should 10/(10+10) scale differently than 1000/(1000+1000)?

IF anything level differences hardly moves the needle away from the default 1/2, towards the max of 1, whereas AR is influenced heavily by gear choice. DR is unknown, so..... and this might be the pvp formula anyway.
It's a nifty formula, but how much can be divined from it? I could fill in the gaps, or I can determine cow DR, by reverse engineering from the displayed chance, AR and LvL.

It would be easier to just test/demonstrate the chance gap for angelic rings on a high level barb.

yes barbs should use sigons hat + gloves at the least but thats because they also give you 2 other stats (str/leech) i listed that you would prefer over what angelics gives you
in other words if you dont need the ar from angelics (you dont at lvl 87+) you only gain dex mf and 75 life so swap the rings out for more useful stats

i guess you dont understand what an all rare gear setup is but i specifically did not use the sigons combo because it would muddle the effects of the ar and lvl difference components of hitchance
:bonk: why are you randomly assigning values to something you dont understand? use values within the context of the game and youll understand

you could demonstrate the difference yourself but you would need a high level barb
i did that for you while suggesting cows are not a good example because of their low lvl and the fact that barbs should not be anywhere cows
your example with an equal level attacker and defender is also bad :rofl: when i am making the case HIGHER character lvl than monster lvl is the key point

dr is not unknown its the monsters defense besides it would be constant when the comparison is ar vs lvl difference so just pick a value and keep it the same
you lack d2 info and math understanding i suggest amazon basin for monster stats and phrozen keep for game mechanics

ar big number
lvl difference small number....~3 orders of magnitude smaller
200000>>>>>>10
you can achieve the same hit chance with a much smaller ar number by gaining 10 levels

they scale differently because of the above and its easier to gain 10 levels than another 20k ar
in other words lvl difference far outweighs your ar in terms of what is achievable in either department when determining hit chance
go ahead plug in a lvl 2 character with 100k ar attacking a lvl 90 monster with 2100 defense
then try a lvl 12 character with only 10k ar against the same lvl 90 2100 defense monster

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