Sniper actually lowers my dmg, as the 150% sniper stance bonus works as a regular damage increase. The 150% doesen't make up for the lost rate of fire, final dps is a lot lower. What would I need sniper for? Higher range? Dude, I can just get a rifle with + to sniper on it if thats what I want, it's not really needed. This build is not made to slowly clear each zone on a safe distance, this is about fast paced raw action, you run trough a room and when you get to the other side it's clear. Not some boring standstill where you take out mobs one at a time.

8slot electric rifles suck major donkey balls. They deal the same damage per shot as an arclight, that can have 6 slots, but only fire 400 shots per minute while an arclight fires 600. Also, relics are the only mods that can have critdmg vs caste, and an arclight has 3 relic slots while an electric has one. 200% critdmg vs demons is as effective as 2x100% critdmg, and given that you have 3 of those, they will make up for lost modslots. The base dmg then being 50% higher, means the arclight is far superior to any electric rifle when it comes to caste-modding potential. Don't be fooled by the number of modslots, look at what kind of modslots, and primarily the base damage of the weapon. The base damage will have a much larger impact on the final damage, as I will illustrate in the next version of this guide.

So, my guide sucks, thats some constructive critisism you have there buddy. I answered all your critique, and thats all you can throw back at me. Cool.

Also, while this build might make what you call a glass cannon, and it not being sturdy enough for hardcore, I don't know, I never played hardcore. I don't die on my MM tho, so I doubt it'd make much of a difference.

As for my marksman experience, it is true that I have played a marksman trough normal, but currently my marksman on elite is lvl 50, rank 45, and deals more damage without dying then you can ever dream of. This is my third marksman at lvl 50, so shut your piehole, you're making a fool of yourself. If you entered this thread merely to spew unfounded critisism and flame, please leave, if you actually have something to back up what you're saying; present it. I got maths to cover my claims, you got "as soon as i saw that you blasted the point about the electric rifle i lol'd - you obviously have no clue or haven't looked at what other people who know far more about the mm than you or I have done to bosses with electric rifles." Rock solid proof presented there, I see.

How about we take a look at the damage?

We got 25% critchance as base, 900% critical damage. Both weapons have max ammount of slots, and we mod them to reach 100% critchance, and the rest with critical damage.

Fully nanoed Arclight fusion:
10-18 damage, 600 shots/minute - 6 modslots
14 average at 600 shots/minute = 140 dps
3x100% crit multiplier fuels = 100% critchance
3x200% critdmg vs type relic = 1500% extra dmg on a crit


Fully nanoed nikola's:
19-21, 400 shots/minute - 8 modslots
20 average at 400 shots/minute = 133 dps
3x100% crit multiplier mods = 100% critchance
1x200% critdmg vs type relic = 1100% extra dmg on a crit
4x90% critdmg mods = 1460% extra dmg on a crit

I don't think I even need to calculate the final damage for you to realise what its gonna be like. So, as you can see, the F-S shock rifle is inferior, and requires more mods = higher feeds, also, heavier feed costs on 90% critdmg mod then 200% vs caste mods, more expensive mods, yada yada. How is the Shock rifle in any way superior? It seems that after all, you are the one that knows nothing.

On a side note, the final avg dmg per shot with a nikola is 21, toxic included, fully nanoed. The final avg on a Lee is 17. The spread on a nikola is insane, unless you got both tpj and sue. See for yourself. Also, a lee has shield penetration, and lots of it, making it ideal to mod for spectrals or demons. You'll clear torment faster then ever with a spectral modded lee's.

This post was edited by Blodulf on May 28 2008 11:36am

it's cute that you rage and all, but you have proved my point that you have played the mm through norm and think you know it all, which you don't

but rather than talking with other players and attempting a guide that would help and inform people, you went off insulting me. way to go champ.

how is the shock rifle superior? you obviously haven't seen the videos or other threads?

and you don't know shit about my marksman yet apparently yours is so superior?

fucking spawns. get a clue plz.

I have seen videos of course, but I do the same or better with my arclights, with a lower feed cost. Thus, arclights are superior. I'm not raging, or well, I'm done raging. I can now calmly deconstruct whatever argument you throw at me, if its an argument at all. Ever heard of thesis, antithesis and synthesis? What you do does not follow a constructive pattern of discussion. If this is all about me insulting you; I apologise. However, I do find it an insult when you start of saying my guide sucks, that I don't know my class, etc etc. This guide is certainly meant to inform and help, and I believe it succeeds in doing so, the discussion with you showed me a few holes in my guide; admittedly I should have deconstructed the myth about nikola and shockrifles from the start.

I'm asking you again, after putting up the actual numbers - how is the shock rifle superior? You just saw a video, and concluded that a demon modded shockrifle rocks. True, it does. However, it's inferior to a demon modded arclight, and I got all the proof I need in my last post. How about you stop making unfounded claims, and actually present some proof? I did, you can see above how I did it. It's not hard.



Funny, I just scrolled up and read this; "As for my marksman experience, it is true that I have played a marksman trough normal, but currently my marksman on elite is lvl 50, rank 45, and deals more damage without dying then you can ever dream of. This is my third marksman at lvl 50, so shut your piehole, you're making a fool of yourself."
I probably have more experience with marksmen then most people do, and that you keep on repeating that mantra of yours further proves my point about you not even caring enough to read what I write. How about, you actually do that, you might learn something.

This post was edited by Blodulf on May 28 2008 12:20pm

i read it, have you played a mm through hc? plz, elite is just monsters with more hp.

could have just said, this is more for non-hc players and i'm focusing on XX. For you to make a 'guide' without mentioning one of the most popular guns in the game is funny.

And ask terminalvertigo if you need to know about nikolas - his rapes harder than any gun i've seen. between us we have lees/niks/hus all with crit dmg on them and godly aug'd tpj's/duellos/sues etc etc.

You also go on about the luck yet don't mention using any legendary's with luck? Where are the alternatives?

read this thread: http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=6576498

it might be d2 but that is a guide. not just 'throw on these uniques and go pwn'

Ok, your friend has a nikola that in your opinion is very good. Thats some solid proof presented there. I'm going to return with a detailed comparison between different setups with different weapons, calculating the estimated dps. There I will finally bust open any myths about nikola, would that make you happy? Also, luck is a bonus, not a self fulfilling goal. Thats why it's not among the primary wanted stats on legendarys. If you disagree, whatever, but luck will not help you kill faster or increase your survivability, and the goal of this guide is to help people with just that.

Also, as for this guide, i risk being repetitive now, but there is a second, polished version coming up with more details as on why and why not certain things work the way they do, and some items are better then others. I feel I presented enough here to give it a shot, and I posted the guide on demand even if it wasn't completely finished.

So far, the only thing that has come from you thats actually really constructive is the part about not mentioning that this guide is not meant for hc. Yes, that's true, I haven't played hc, and with my PC I probably never will. Neither do I care much about HC. The character this guide produces has been very carefully described as a low survivability high dps character, and if you still want to go with that on HC, fine, myself - I consider those pros and cons pretty self explanatory when it comes to HC, where surviving is your #1 priority. I still think HC players will be able to draw some wisdom from my skill and expertise analysis though, even if they choose different gear.

woa, some rage essays going on here? its a good guide, get over it. lol

thanks again for the guide. around how much FG or palla would it take to get Hu's or Lee's? anyone know?

Hardcore guides are generally labelled as such because of all the different decisions you make with respect to survivability.

I would not read this and assume it works for hardcore.


Norm Shulgoth:
2 mil for 2 slot Hu
5-7 mil for 3 slot Hu
500-700K for 6 slot Lees
200K for 5 slot Lees
100K for 4 slot Lees

now we're talking.

ok so IMO state that this is a sc guide, post some info on some of the legendary alterntives to gear and also some of the other unique guns and it will be a decent guide.

also remember that 1.3c is on TC and 2.0 comes soon - generic changes will affect any guide and this should be stated.

also for prices

4 slot lees - 50k
5 slot ~150k
3 slot hu's are now < 5 mill, saw a guy offer one for 4.7 on the forums and prices are dropping all the time


This post was edited by RapidClick on May 28 2008 12:56pm

Ofcourse guides are subject to change, but should every guide then contain a clause where possible changes and the entire effect on the guide is included?

Legendary gear? Well, I stated what stats you should go for, and why. Next version of the guide will contain feed cost, more detailed information on different affixes and why you should chose them over others, etc. As it is now, settle for whats already there; I do walk you trough what stats you want on the non-unique pieces of gear (well, you would notice if you actually read the guide), so thats not something i've left out.

Prices vary to much to make a general statement. Clean 3slot hu's go for 2 mill on sydonai elite atm, so your prices don't really apply there. Thus, no price section. Stating that item x is more expensive then item y is a fairly safe assumption in most cases, and thats as far as I'll go when it comes to pricing.

Sorry but the bit about you saying Luck, health or Thorns being superior to Armour made me piss myself laughing, Armour dye is the ONLY option for a Mm unless ofc you need the attributes a black knight gives. Every Mm I have seen and inspected has armour on items or armour value increase, but then, going by the rest of what you say, you are unique and must have an aura round you to protect you but if you dont have armour, fancy some PvP sometime? Rofl

Overall I found it a good guide and very informative, very useful for first timers and gives an idea as to what items to aim for. Of course you dont have to use twin Hu's, some people prefer the ignite from Lee's or phase/shock from Nikola's, thats down to personal preference.

Another thing you should aim for when buying or farming items is Hp bonus %, EVERY char needs this and it's even been known for people to sacrifice Mav's, TPJ and Sue's for something with Armour and Hp bonus.

I didn't read all your guide but what I did read seemed nice but did you mention Duellists Duellos has a hidden 3% crit chance?

Overall nice guide, hope you have other chars and have considered writing guides for those too? I sure dont have the patience