Very odd guide, seems to me you need to learn this class more.

First off you say don't invest points into Shields because the Marksman isn't going to get hit then you want to put 10 pts into armor and wear loads of +armor gear? You need to make you mind up what this guide is for. Either you are maxing armor AND shields and concentrating more on stances or you are a TRUE run-and-gun, therefore you should without doubt be maxing concussion rounds (which should never come off, the dmg from the retargeted rounds is pathetic wheres the benefits from concussion and moving are priceless. Also armor costs a lot of strength pts whch you rly want to be investing into acc/will to ensure you killspeed is optimum.

You also mention armor as your dye kit. Why not luck? or Health? or Lite dmg? ALL of those superior for this build. Again make up your mind.

Secondly, you say this is a PvP guide but items like Eyes / TPJ's sues are really PvP oriented gear and a Hu's is NEVER going to be as effective vs groups as a Lees especially for a run-and-gun as Lees has such superior range and the chance to ignite which can be very helpful PvM. 6os are going for 750k which is very cheap. And Voodoo Rifle on a build like this? And don't underestimate Dunbars - with a few divine mods and it's novas you can mow down mobs very easily and if you're pvm (which this guide is) you can go through the mini-game amazingly quickly getting plenty of loot. I'm denying Hu's can be gg, but IMO it's not the be all and end all. Also, where is the Nikolas Polyphase option? Phase dmg and Lite dmg? Amazing weapon and tragically not mentioned.

You also LOL at Sprint use rate and you're a runner? This is a joke right? Sprint is very valuable and life-saving or maybe this is a norm only guide? Think about Elite and especially Hardcore players who will need to gtfo of Dodge to stay alive.

Don't be so quick to write off health regen either, a marksman won't have life like a melee char and considering with the ranks/gear you can quite easily (and cheaply) get 6+ life per second, this is not to be scoffed at esp for players of the harder difficulties/hardcore.

Also caste modding is rly only useful if you want one specific boss to be made easy - for example - an 8 slot electric rifle with all demon mods = no molly and at a cheap cost. No need to have lots as only rly Molly/Dessy/Syd are tough and 2 of those are demons.

Some good ideas but too many holes for this to be a guide.

This post was edited by RapidClick on May 28 2008 08:33am

You need tor ead my guide. I tell you specifically to not put any points in strength, but wear what armor you can afford with the stats you get from AA and possible +str affixes. Retargeted rounds are still 75% dmg, which is a total damage increase of 22,5% with 30% chance to retarget (and unlike damage increase multipliers, this appears as a final multiplier, not an additive), how is that useless? Concussion does nothing except interrupt, and while this is useful, monsters should never reach you do to your damage output being high enough to kill em before they do. Besides, increasing your interrupt strength with 100% when your base interrupt strength is 5 with lee's, well, have fun. This won't do shit, and by using concussive munition you sacrafice damage on your ravager rounds. Learn to play marksman.

Also, there's nothing that says I can't increase my survivability as a run and gun marksman. I just told people not to do it on the expense of damage, and instead instructed people how to increase their survivability with armor, without putting points in strength, or sacraficing anything. You, on the other hand, propose we sacrafice 10 points of skills to increase survivability by concussion rounds (and that will be an extremely low increase in survivability), where do we take those points from? Ravagers, not getting that juicy 22,5% damage increase?

Shields are useless. Thats the end of it, there's no need to explain that further then I already did in the guide. There might be a day when they are improved, but in their current state, don't. Just don't, put any expertise points in recharging shields. Lol.



Health regeneration? Seriously, even with a perfect health regeneration kit, 70/minute, thats 1,06 health per second regenerated. Thats not gonna make a difference. Lite dmg? You mean thorns? How is that superior to AA for a run and gun marksman? AA increases all your stats, lets you put more into accuracy and less into meeting feed requirements, how is that in any way bad? Cold steel increases armor, that might otherwise be hard to come by, and it's a welcome addition. The ones you mentioned are complete and utter bullcrap, except for luck, which adds to your item finding ability, but nothing to your survivability and DPS. Gee.



First of all, no, I state this is not a PVP guide. Jesus. Second, lee's has 28 m range, hu's got 25. Missile spread is not an issue with SuE's. How is twice the dmg on hu's not as effective as lee's? Ignite is useless, people are illusioned. It takes 20 seconds to kill a monster without any ignite damage reduction with ignites, do you, sir, take 20 seconds to kill a monster? Mine die in about 1. I cut down bladeslayers like you do zombies, hence, ignite has no time to work it's wonders. I don't deny, however, that for people that build their chars with cowpie armor and weapons, ignite mightbe useful. Also, 750k is not "cheap" to everybody, you, me, and a lot of other people might have no problems loading up a few millions on +6 crit hu's, but not everybody has that option. Thats why I bothered listing several options.

Voodoo is situationally good, I have a voodoo modded for undead killing, works wonders vs those zombie summoners in necro fall, but as I said, it's extremely situational, and not really something you should rely on all round.

Dunbars with divine mods? Have you read my guide at all? You also contradict yourself, saying I shouldn't spend points where they don't increase damage, yet, you want to sacrafice your stats on willpower to meet divine mods feed requirements. Get a grip. Also, I did state the pros of a dunbar, did I not? I use one myself, modded against beasts. Taking out fellbores etc is just wonderful with a dunbar.

As for nikola, it's got to be the most overrated weapon there is. it deals 16 avg dmg with 400 shots per minute, while lee's deal 17 with 600, not to mention the 16x2/600 avg dmg from 2 hu's. Phasing is nice and all, but it's not really gonna make up for the more then 50% dmg loss, and neither is 8 modslots compared to lee's 6. Lee's got relics, allowing you to get up to +225% critdmg vs caste, nikola's does not. Did I mention the missile spread is absolutely horrible on nikola?



Huh? What are you thinking? You have 50 points, of which most people will probably only spend 40 or so, as ranking up is very hard. You want to put those points in getting to use sprint a bit more often, instead of increasing your crit, increasing your health, damage, well, you name it. While I don't disagree that it's a bonus, and maybe a nice one, it's not worth the points, and should never be considered over the tons more useful expertises. I don't really feel a need to explain this further, people should get the point.



A nice bonus at best, not something you should sacrafice your hard earned points to meet the feed, and as for expertises, woah, what are you smoking? There's so many, so much more important expertises to put your points in.



Well, thats where it really shines, but if you want to run essence caves, etc, caste-modded weapons are really really nice to have. I'm not saying you should only have caste-weapons, right? These are an addition to your marksman, that improves him. You fail, massively. Also, an arclight is far better, since relics can get +225% to caste critical damage, while a normal modslot cant. A lee's is thus possible to mod higher, for more anti-caste dmg, then an 8slot electric rifle. Also, why not get more castes, even if only two kinds are as highly relevant now? I mean, the others DO help, there's purely spectrals in torment, nothing but beasts in the maw, except for the occasional bat-demon. Not to mention you can now cut trough lvl 60 areas and deepest wild like one would normally clear the way to abby.



Go away, you went beyond funny into the zone of ignorant and annoying. If I misinterpreted something due to your horrible english (I really couldn't make out what you meant with some parts, pvp guide? huh? typo, stupidity or have you just not read anything i wrote in my guide?) feel free to correct it.


For those of you with an intellect superior to this guys, and a pinch of interest, I'm working on a more detailed, cleaned up guide, where I fully present feed costs of different affixes, weapon and armor types, and make some calculations and comparitions between different setups for different levels of play, complete with numbers. Thanks for your appreciation so far

This post was edited by Blodulf on May 28 2008 09:34am

IMO this is a GG guide Click. Sure, I don't play for so long, and my highest lvl character is a lvl 20 BM, wich I quit playing.
But it's detailed enough for me to follow it, and I didn't have any problem so far with my MM.
I do agree with him tho, Lee's >>> any weapon lol!
Again: this should be stickied!

I don't agree that any weapon >>> any weapon, lee's have it's uses, as does hu. Personally I got a legendary arclight vs undead, a voodoo vs undead, Hu's for allround, Lee's vs demon, Lee's vs spectral and dunbar vs beasts. Depending on what kind of mobs spawn in a zone I adapt, and it's that ability to adapt that makes a marksman superior. Most classes will have major problems reaching 100% critchance against all kinds with different weaponsets.

I will go in more detail on how to achieve the caste-modding in the updated version. Til then, enjoy

I have a dumb question. When I go to my inventory, there are 3 squares: one with F1, other F2 and yet another with F3. Are those the weapon switch stuff? I didn't try putting anything there since IDK what those are LOL.
If so, I now agree with your last post Blod, it would be extremely godly to be able to have so many choices and variety of weapons.

Yes, those are weapon switches. In addition to those three, I usually carry another 2 weapons in my inventory to be able to switch, only bringing out my undead voodoo for necro fall xp runs. I really can't handle zombie FPS at lowest floor when people start nuking, so I snipe em from the bridge above As I said, situational

I think Rapid makes a few valid points, but overall it's a good guide.

I myself did put one point into the health regen expertise, only because it keeps my health ball topped off while I run around killing everything and taking the occasional hit. If I had any health regen on my gear I wouldn't have wasted it, and I may try to get a piece of gear later so I can respec that point.

The crit mod concept is something that I'd just started discovering on my own, and you illustrated that pretty well. I have 3 x 3% relics in my lees, and I'll definitely be switching my divine fuels for some accuracy based crit fuels.

Unfortunately I also wasted 6 points into the damage expertise, but hopefully we'll get a respec or they'll fix that.

I'm not sure I want to deal with making caste guns for every caste, but I'm definitely going to consider putting together a demon gun, probably with an 8 slot electric like Rapid suggested. I'm not sure if I'd want to waste a Nikolas for that.

Have you worked out the math on crit % and crit damage with a Nikolas? You should add that into the weapon discussion whether the conclusion is that it's worse or better or better and not worth the money.


Yes those are your three weapon slots available.

I actually have my lees on one, two mutishot 3 guns on one, and two escape 3 guns on the other for running through wake to get to caste caves. Also good for searching for dessi.

This post was edited by Schlag96 on May 28 2008 10:33am

Having full health or 50 from full doesn't make that much of a difference, and sure, if you get some on the gear I don't think it hurts a lot, but it's mostly esthetic. 50 Health isn't gonna make much of a difference. Then there's the issue with feeds and limited ammount of expertise points..

Do consider making a spectral gun to, even a 5slot lee's would do wonders. I'll implement a guide to making your caste-weapons in the next version, on top of cleaning up the dicsussion around caste-mods. I really don't recommend the 8slot electric rifles tho, as their dmg is sub-par, and the extra two modslots do not make up for it.

And yes, well, I've done the maths on nikola before, and it's indeed far worse then other options. I'll present some numbers in the next version of the guide.

first of all you need to calm down, i never insulted you, although you felt the need to which tells me you aren't confident enough in your guide to let it speak for itself, but rather talk about my intellect to prove it's validity. you fail.

as soon as i saw that you blasted the point about the electric rifle i lol'd - you obviously have no clue or haven't looked at what other people who know far more about the mm than you or I have done to bosses with electric rifles.

how about you do more than run through normal and think you know enough to make a guide and try not to insult people on the forums to try and make yourself look clever because you don't. you look like a tit.

edit:

i re-read it again - your guide sucks.

re-edit: 50 health might not mean much to your norm mm, but try saying that to a hce mm.

another edit: glass cannon-esque with no pts in sniper. lol gtfo.

This post was edited by RapidClick on May 28 2008 10:59am