Tobbleron is da bes.

Based Tobble.

Widow/pharah/hanzo/junkrat and especially genji counter torb and bastion with no problems.

agree completely, as frustrated as i get playing with retards with no coordination there is no reason to nerf bastion or torb from a competitive standpoint. I do think bastion will get 1 last nerf though just due to public outcry never seen a character hated so much before lol.

I wouldn't say that.
I think that skill CEILINGS should all be balanced at purely the highest tiers.
But the lower skill and "for fun" experiences are also very important (since they take up 99.99% of the game's matches), so balancing skill FLOORS is also important (nothing being too strong for how easy it is relative to new player coordination and skill)

Basically what I'm saying is...
Instead of outright nerfing Bastion to please new players, you just make him harder to play towards the same outcome.
This way it makes no difference for high tiers but a big difference to low tiers.
If anything you could increase his ceiling a little more with the changes since he is under played competitively.

You need to remember that there is more you can do to a character than simply nerf or buff. You can also shift/change to keep them at similar power level at certain levels but different at others.
In League of Legends you see this a lot in animation cancelling. A few times they have actually added/removed/enhanced animation cancelling to characters which adjusts their high level play but keeps their low level play the same. (Similar to how Reaper can melee to reload more effectively)

This post was edited by FroggyG on Jun 8 2016 04:18pm

that makes sense

I don't see how it would apply to turdborn though since he's already ridiculously strong

do you make him even more retardedly good and nerf the HP to his turret so the retards can kill it easier?

I think the problem people have with his turret is the quick auto targetting it has

Not the actual health or damage numbers

My friend is new to the game (relative to others of course) and he bitches and complains about Torb's turret over and over and over and over (it's annoying)
He hates how it has perfect accuracy

And naturally he plays Tracer... lol

You could give it more health but make it take longer to lock onto people if they aren't in its direct line of sight (where it is already facing)
This way in a real fire fight, the turret is actually stronger, but it doesn't punish stupid players as much whom have no awareness.

This post was edited by FroggyG on Jun 9 2016 12:30am

real problem with the turrets is that they have perfect accuracy and reactionary time. humans don't have perfect accuracy on other characters. the turrets should have much less dmg. they do almost as much as other heroes and have perfect accuracy

And what would you buff instead?
Because Torb is considered a pretty weak character already

turrets are just faulty in general for such a fast paced game.... probably make it turn slow and be really loud while taking time to rotate before it can fire like turrets do in most other games

This post was edited by ChrisKz on Jun 9 2016 01:54am

But what would you buff
Because you're trying to nerf an already weak character who gets countered by so many things

This post was edited by FroggyG on Jun 9 2016 01:55am