Isn't that what I said? We need a topic on self-sufficiency.

The way I figure it, the guild mate who uses everyone else's gear has no issue whatsoever never investing shit in LS, selling any decent drops they find, and living off you. Then one day, you stop lending, or die, or merely get tired and go afk, they quit. Honestly, they quit because of you. Rather, it'd be nice to help them out with some cheap starter gear, that way they can grind through to a decent set of their own. Then they can slash independent of you. The suggestion listed in this topic is nothing more than a way to encourage people to become even LESS self-sufficient, and much less likely to become long-time players of the game.

Stop breaking people! They only give 20% mana bar when shrined! Start making them fend for themselves! Just vote NO to this topic!

The timer thing I disagree with. The ability to make loaned items non shrinable/deletable I agree wholeheartedly with.

I have a whole slew of reasons for the disagreement with the timer, too many to list(I'm lazy).

Didn't vote


Edit: Adding a reason or two for the disagreement.

I personally would like to know whether I have someone in the guild who is a slimeball and would steal someone else's items(even mine). I think that is more valuable then having my items not taken(god forbid them being stolen). Knowing the character of those in your guild, to me, is more important then my items.

Many many guildees don't use the market place for buying/selling gear to other guildees(oops I said it). Pretty well known that it happens. Now, what's to stop someone scamming by selling items with the "guildee discount" for prices that can't be turned down. Making a lot of fg then getting all the items back. Can't prove they are a scammer and the worse thing that can happen is they get kicked from the guild....with all the items and fg.

What if the game takes longer then you thought and your item you borrowed "poofs" on you during a cata and you end up screwing your teamates(catamates?) because you are no longer pulling your weight.

If this was implemented and it became very common to borrow all your gear. Why should you buy fg(or earn it) to get upgrades on your items, especially when you got someone like Stok3d in your guild that has the best collection of gear in the game? What is the incentive to try to improve your gear when you can just borrow better? Where does Paul make money if no one needs fg for upgrades? Where is the economy at when no one needs anything because they can just borrow it? I see this being detrimental to both the economy(ours) and Pauls pocketbook...which would make this a very very bad idea.

Can list more but you get the idea I think?

Edit#2 Making loaned/borrowed items unshrinable/undeletable is simply brilliant and should be implemented. However I would add the timer to that instead, in case it's a case of donating the item. At some point the item should be able to be sold/shrined/deleted, in case it then has a new owner. For instance, say you borrow my 55 dagger and really like it. You have a 55 charm I really like and we trade. Your item cannot be sold to anyone down the road, because of the unsellable/unshrinable/undeletable. So a timer for that part would correct anything of that nature.

This post was edited by HoR_Rahl on Feb 17 2010 04:36pm

yes many people are not getting what your implementing stoked but you take the risk of them shrining the item when you lend it to them if that happens you regret it deeply then decide to either quit or continue playing ls.

Also you said have a fee for this who would pay for the the lender or the lendee and where would it go to the store or the lender.

I like the idea, and i voted yes.

However, I think the idea of the item being indestructible should be removed. That's a risk you take when loaning it out, you have to trust the person not to shrine it or trash it.
The timer is great though because sometimes people forget to send it back or might send it to the wrong person, so if you put the restraints on the item, like they can't send to other people, that'd be super

Idk, good idea overall just needs some tweaking i think

I would think Paul likes it when people shrine good items. More fg taken out of the system, therefore raising the value of fg overall. If a 30k item disappears out of LS to him its really not a bad thing. This I believe is also why he charges fg for everything. Profile upgrades, vaults, transfers, posting fees, etc.

I think it would be a cool idea of protecting your interests, but will it happen? no.

the items not being able to be shrined is one of the main reasons hes calling this pole because he does not want his 50k items to get trashed by someone he lends them to accidently

Some ppl made some very valid points..notably Hor_rahl, Natester, Massivelybored, Heid, izParagonzi and even Insanebobb SmokeyMcPot was even able to see through my smoke cloud--I want the warm & fuzzy when helping others.
I'll stop with my replies cause I can tell I get frustrated when someone just says "don't lend" & I think they are not making a valid arguement. Saying "don't lend" doesn't state anything about this request and to how if implimented would negatively effect you. If you disagree, please state a negative as to why.

Either way, thank you everyone for the discussion and I hope Paul may extract some type of idea from this to tweak




good point. I was only thinking SC when making this topic. lending in HC is clearly an insane idea imo--i don't have the cojones for that game play!


This post was edited by Stok3d on Feb 17 2010 05:17pm

Both points are valid... especially to those that think the same way.
I can not talk for anyone else here... but only talk about my actions and the way I deal with these type of issues.

Note: I have not even been playing LS for 1 year.

1. I collect up alot of junks... when a guildy is in need of gear and just starting out... i do the following:
.. 1a. send them 100fg to get a vault for me to transfer my junk items over for them to use (if I have the funds)
.. 1b. if they have "0" (zero) fg & I have under 150fg... I send 5fg... then I find 5 items and put on MP @ 1fg each for him to buy
.. 1c. if neither 1a/1b are available... I will cata him/her to find drops during the runs... get him/her to re-roll and repeat until we find more

2. If I want to borrow items from a guild member, whether to game or test with... I do the following:
.. 2a purchase vault or guild xfer days
.. 2b send that person 100fg to get vault if they do not have one
.. 2c place items either on a mule that they can keep track of ... or leave those items in the vault (circumstances pending)

Basically the end story is detrimental to only those people that do things differently...
The best thing to this suggestion is having the chance to eliminate HUMAN error of shrining...
Now as for Hardcore and death... this is something that should NOT be available, this will keep the risk factor.
If you play HC and do not want to lose your best gear... I am sure alot of them have backup gear to lend out... at their own risk.
________________

Most of the above message is based on me... I GIVE AWAY items... this way I do not burden the pain of their misfortune in either trashing/shrining etc... but I am not stupid to just give those items to anybody...

Definatly a wonderful thing...but far from our reality.

Hate to see this backfire during a trade...

I will say, I love the idea of making items indestructible. I'd adore the ability to turn all my tier I, II, III, and IV arcane+'s indestructible, then toss them on the market for glyphers/muters, only to have those who purchased them realize they can't do anything with them.

May I have a "Make Indestructible" button please?

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 17 2010 05:40pm