yes same str



No you dont..k nn this as you can clearly see comparing the Low ee to a Massive high ee so heavys > reg

This post was edited by SmokeyMcPot1990 on Oct 18 2009 06:02am

what counts is dmg over time. and you will never do as much dmg per minute with the longsword as you do with the normal one.
your 63ee outweights a regular weapon with 126ee somehow (im really bad @ math, cant tell why) but that 226ee weapon will do approximately twice as much dmg per minute as your heavy does.
you also overkill a lot with heavies (doing 5k crit on mob with 50 life left) and waste some of its potential. on the other hand you oneshot some mobs and therefore dont get hit by that mob at all, which is great.

heavies somehow do more dmg then a comparable normal weapon and have a nice xp bonus of ~10-15%. but you cant just compare the ee and say that a 63ee heavy is equal to a 226ee normal weapon

You guys should know that with comparable amounts of EE heavies will do a higher average then normal weapons since thenormal weapon gets it's damage reduced twice instead of the heavy only once.

thats means every heavy has effective 50% armor pierce.

@[fB]: the exp bonus only counts for catas... just wanted to mention, not that ppl get the wrong impression



he used them a lot, trust me

This post was edited by derDrops on Oct 18 2009 07:17am

Yes however i have out dmg'd people with my pole set that have 170 ee weapons. and its 115 ee lvl 50. i was just simply showing how great heavy weapons can be not. i was not saying one time that that longsword was better than that sword. if it had 100 ee it would keep up with that 226 ee sword. easily.
if you have not used heavy weapons on climbs your input does not help here because you dont know its that simple.

Ya I think alot of misunderstanding is happening here. I do agree however that there are alot more pros unknown to the majority of heavy weapons. Even though you and I would likely opt for the 226ee sword for speed lvling sense over the 63 ee one, not many see the point you're trying to make is that the ee is not exactly double on heavy weapons, in fact the ratio increases as you go up. So a 113ee heavy weapon would deal a significant amount more damage over the 226ee sword (in one hit of course) and would deal perhaps up to 4x the damage of 226ee sword if the heavy wep had 226ee as well. However there are many factors that come to play and for the sake of argument I will try to outline the few that I can think of (arxyn pointed out one of them).

Heavy weapons have a higher base damage therefore the multiplier for it achieves a higher possible efficiency than a normal weapon, be it 1/2 the speed.
E.g: Lets say normal wep base damage is 100 and it has 100 ee which roughly brings it to 200dmg output. A 200base heavy can reach 400 with that same amount of ee.

Here is where the confusion starts, though ee wise you see that the damage has only been doubled and the speed halved (effectively the same damage) we are missing one tiny variable that affects the ee. And that is the str. If say your str is 100, then you have reached maximum possible efficiency for your ee in this case (100). You would need to match whatever ee you have with your str for maximum efficiency to be achieved. This ofc is not always doable when say you have 226ee sword as not many people can reach 226str without weakening or neglecting their character in some other defensive/crit based stats like int and dex.

In effect, if you were to somehow muster up 226str on that same character and start comparing the two weapons again you will find that the sword will be more than 1x the damage of the heavy weapon, in fact if we were to assume for a second that your heavy wep was 113ee than they would almost (I say almost) be the same damage.

Someone brought this issue of calculating ee to str once (dragonsomething) and showed that it is gaining the perfect square that makes it the most efficient for your weapon of choice. That is 100eex100str = 1000area, 150ee x 50str = 750area etc. The further away you get from your perfect area the less effective the multiplier will be, that is you add up to 250str say for your 226ee sword it will still increase the damage of the sword ofc but not as much as the 226th str point that peaks it's multiplier (4x I think?).

tl:dr
Heavies don't suck for varies reasons imo :D. And you rock, whoever you are!

I am saying all this from purely what I know without actually checking your character, and I immediately assume that you don't actually have str anywhere near 200 just looking at the value of dmg shown.

Hope all this shed some light, I for one very much like heavy weapons particularly those with easy to maximize efficiency ee (like the one you have) and focus my stats on other important stats contributing to defense and longevity of my combat mode without having to heal (such as dex / int).

Your str/dex placement shouldn't depend on how much EE your weapon has.

I'll go more into detail if you want but... yeah.

The rest of your reasoning seems pretty valid though, I'll probably test it later with some real numbers and formulas.

Str/dex should not solely depend on your ee but should also depend on what gear you have and what you aim to build your character as. I hardly focus on matching my str with ee anymore as soloing a melee (or caster) relies more on defensive and malleable stats like dex/int. But I dare say that anyone that aims for a specific value of dex/int/str every single time is not at all trying to maximize his/her character, rather following the norm which sometimes doesn't always fit with your particular character.

But go into more detail please, we're all here to understand more . Not trying to be patronizing or anything btw, I really am intrigued.

edit: to stay even more on topic, just cause I said I don't match my str to ee anymore doesn't mean matching the ee to str is not an option. Which is why opting for heavy weapons may well be the better choice at times, as is the case here. I'm one of Tim's devout followers that refuse to believe that it all depends on fgs and the ee you got on your wep/charm and all that dex/str. If you are willing to experiment a little you will be surprised what you can come across with little fg and a little extra knowledge. Bit hypocritical you may think seeming as most of my gear adds up to quite a bit of fg but even then the knowledge gained from those experiments are invaluable. Grinding can be quite fulfilling too.

This post was edited by Safmy on Oct 18 2009 08:26am

Mk here it goes

1- Lets assume monsters don't have defense
2- Lets assume CS don't happen
3- I'll bring back the damage to an average per action ( like the normal weapons)
4- Weapons will 150 EE
5- Str will be 150 (to make you happy :P)
6- I don't know how to factor in dex, so I won't
7- No proficiencies

Heres your damage formula.


Damage = base*(.95 + str/100)(1 + (EE+prof)/100)

Base damage of a 150EE sword at 150 str

14 * (1,5095)(2,5) = 53
140 * (1,5095(2,5) = 528

Weapon range, 53 - 528 -> average damage = 291

Base damage of a 150EE longsword at 150 str

28 * (1,5095)(2,5) = 106
280 * (1,5095)(2,5) = 1057

Weapon range, 106 - 1057 -> (average damage)/2 = (581,5)/2 = 291

Hurray for maths! I was looking for that formula, gonna keep it stored in notepad now as it isnt worth going through old topics just to find the one thing >_>


edit; actually im not sure if that is the exact formula I saw. The one that dragon guy came up with was this was it?

edit2: to be honest Im kinda confuzzled with that. I sent you a pm for clarification.

edit3: the str calculation should come up to 2.45 isn't it?

This post was edited by Safmy on Oct 18 2009 08:40am