Well you basically missed the whole point of the topic, congratz.

It never has been about my gear or not. It has always been about the community testing the casting abilities
It never has been about going hybrid at all. It has always been about putting some skill points into a casting ability and get an ee charm in the acc slot

But hey, I am from germany and maybe my english is not good enaugh to get my point across.

Of course I will be doing further testing myself, but I guess it was a dump idea to ask the community about more input.

The difference using 3 abilties of your class vs using at least 1 offclass ability should be self explain, but maybe allthose hardcore (quite literally) solo players don't use any ability besides healback and salvation. And btw most climbs are not completed solo across the game. In SC most people actually play together, like Paul clearly intends to, since the changes. And yes the game is not just exploring or playing solo. You have the whistle climbs that happen daily numberous of times in SC, hence why it is interesting to see, if those "useless" casting abilities have some advantages when used additionally

To me you guys are both making good points towards builds that can be useful in some way... not sure why the points always seem to start by downgrading the other’s point of view.

Originally, Meridius. I thought you were asking for any slashers’ experience with hybrid abilities (abilities that charge with cast but deal melee damage, or abilities that charge with melee and deal cast damage). It seemed to me that you thought the most useful build with these was just ignoring int and using an EE attack charm in the accessory slot so that’s what you tested, but I guess now you’re only asking for people to test it this way.

This is a good option under some circumstances ... While this is a valid way to add extra damage with very high ee attack charms, IMO it is not that useful with lower ee attack charms since you simply don’t have enough of an int-multiplier on it. So very likely you will add damage this way, but those with lower ee attack charms will not. That can still be okay, and this can still be useful for times when gooacidic or mass foglimes get so annoying that you want to have a non-melee way to remove them, but it’s gonna be a bit limiting for people to want to test only this one way to use hybrid abilities.

I think it’s cool you want to test this one way to play and post results, but why not let others attempt some of the more involved ways to play with hybrid abilities and post those results too?

Also, the reason you need to wait for charges to hit 112% to do the same damage as your melee abilities with 80% despite having roughly equivalent ee on weapon and charm is because you aren’t statting int and very little is added on gear. If you switch around that stat ratio, your hybrid cast abilities will do far more damage than your melee abilities with a lower charge, but of course that isn’t necessarily better... but it isn’t going to be a hard and fast rule depending on gear/stat choices people make

I like your enthusiasm in testing out the new changes with the abilities. Now comes my 2 cents worth (Wall of text inbound)

I have tested these abilities quite sporadically and relentlessly on Hardcore with meagre to decent gear (what I deem to be decent).

The speed of the run was drastically diminished, instead of the average 2.5 to 4 hour group climb, it ended up being 5 to 9 hours, luckily, the rest of the group had better gear and stuck to the norm, otherwise the run would have been longer.

Paladin using Revenge / Healback and Salvation (Role: Tank / Healer)
... Armor = Int / Str and zero EE (2x Abilities with Hits Taken for charging)
... Weapon = level 35 Longsword with 134% EE
... Main Charm 30 int / 25 str
... Focus Heal level 45 with 135% EE

Above works, but not using casting abilities.

Monk casting ability and salvation
... Robe 45% HM / 15 Dex lvl45
... Spear 87% EE lvl 50
... Main Charm = 35% HM / 22 Dex
... Focus heal level 45 135% EE

Monk worked (HM nerf killed this) but now is useless in a group

I have also played a samurai that melee / cast and healed, did this solo'ing with my old SC gear, also tested this out in a group, worked, but now it is pointless as the offcasting abilities charge up way to slowly.

The only way to make more use of the other abilities are simple:
1. when using ability (off cast), it gives you an automatic 10-15% charge up on that ability [you do not start at 0]
2. increase the charge rate % ... i.e. instead of 3% per chance, make it 5% with successful chance (note, this is only an example of charge rate)

Don't get me or others wrong, if I had the gear to make more hybrid classes, I would, take a look at me, I use Int gear on my characters = all of them, I also add INT to samurai / monk / nninja and would also do the same with a HH if I ever had one.
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point of my post was not intended to be "corrected", the point is you are going to come across substantial issues when people are using abilities that reduces the effectiveness of each others abilities.

Example:
after someone using bottoms up / down? or even Revenge? vs 9 wave?
Outcome: Xstrike vs Revenge = Worst scenario, Xstrike only hits 2 out of 5 / Best scenario, you miss the click because the monster is dead.

Let us look at it like Datis = 9 wave = is like looking at your num-pad, so you use the abilities that take out the most amount of monsters with the group you are playing with.
Multi = Best option / You can also take Revenge as it attacks 2 columns (6), but then only best for tanker.

But, none of those abilities are reflected in solo climbs as you don't spawn enough monsters to make them useful.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jul 19 2018 11:19pm

The reason why I think this is the best way to use these abilities is that it charges with melee attacks. This means your consistent damage comes from clicking the mobs with your weapon. With this in mind the only way to maximize your damage output is to go full melee. As I said multiple times, mana is absolute no issues since you cast this ability max 2 times per level anyway. As a melee you dont use any charm in your acc slot, so putting some charm into it will not hurt. Getting rid of some skill points (like4-5) only drops your other abilities by ~10-13%, which is in my opinion a minor sacrifice.

Now you are correct that a low (<100ee) charm might be not the right choice to use it, but we only assume it yet, nobody did any testing and that is what I want. I want this to be tested, so we can talk with Paul about these abilities.
Adding int on your equipment will obviously boost the ee charm, but here again we need to test and try to find some kind of sweet spot or check if it is viable at all.
I don't own a 57, 6cs dex charm to compare to the int/dex one and there are other factors like random mobs, random hit ranges, unknown crit chances etc that makes it really hard to value these things. I mean we dont even have a formula how damage is calculated.

So everything will always be some kind of guessing and testing. But yeah that is basically what I try here to do. Maybe you are right and we need to build some maniac hybrid with like Paparicks Chainmail - idk.

(everything I say on this is always in context of whistle climbing)



those abilities charge with 12% since they are considered casting, the increase per skill point can be viewed on the LS page, but 4-5 points in your class ability give you 58 to 66 %

This post was edited by Meridius on Jul 19 2018 11:02pm

Clearly you are missing the point too. You’re gear represents the 1% of slashers with gear that can support a build like this. On top of that it’s almost 100% limited to SC as gear like this does not exist on hc. On top of that the build is not viable solo which further restricts its usages. The average player will see a marked decrease in the viability of their character as they divert skills that would normally allow their real skills to charge quicker.

But hey ignore my input again just because you dont like it’s content. As I said before, go buy mediocre gear and test full explore if you want to really see if the build is worth using. If you aren’t willing to do that you basically concede that outside using insane gear and being in a game that will never see objectives/EPs this build is useless and not viable.

This post was edited by Cheeya on Jul 19 2018 11:23pm

You are claiming points without proving it at all. Go ahead and test it yourself. I posted the scenario on top.

Yet again you come with solo and good gear. Please stay out of that topic if only want to present your shitty attitude

Did I claim I tested solo? No.
I said that I did a freaking whistle climb like 90%% of the players.


This post was edited by Meridius on Jul 20 2018 01:05am

I blame you for having good gear
Pls only do dmg as you are supposed to
No more testing for more diversity
Ty

His point is that as paul said the build works if you have the gear.

Your whole post is not relevant because its ignoring that fact.

What is it with you elitists, I could care less of your 1000k fg in LS gear but for the love of god stop trying to prove your point and show us plebs that this kinda of build/abilities can work when you have the best gear on the server. Id say there would be a problem if you couldnt accomplish this climb w/o probs. Get some 100 ee stuff and do it again then we'll talk, oh and yeah dont forget to tell us how long that climb was

I'd like to see a full climb worth of actions and damage and compared to others within the climb. Preferably other UA members with similar gear.

It's the only real way I could gauge this to be honest.

If you get a full group with similar gear and go at it, then the "non elitist" as some people are putting it, can expect similar returns when playing with others in the same gear category.