melee would be overpowered imo
voted no

I like Quickdraw. It's a wonderful stat. I wish it effected casting.

I like Lifesteal. It's a wonderful stat. I wish it effected casting.

I like Powershot. It's a wonderful stat. I wish it effected casting.

I like Heavy Weapons. You hit twice as hard, their defense isn't doubled. I wish I had heavy charms.

I like no-regen in solo. I wish mana wasn't required to cast.



I watch my prof numbers very closely. In a full cata climb, with me as driver no less, I gain slightly less than 3% towards next prof level in ice. In a full arena climb, I gain a bit over 24% towards next prof level in ice. As you can see, this means your prof gain is 8 times more effective in solo. Paul once referred to Arena as the "Training Ground" for your character. Perhaps you've not yet discovered why?

Further, I watch my damage vs the damage of others in the party. Always interesting when I outdamage a warlock, me using my 40 ice, the warlock using a 50 or 55 fire with higher damage. I have more actions. Yet I run out of mana, the warlock seldom does. It all makes a difference, yes?

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Mar 15 2010 12:04pm

[x] Yes
___________

Let me set some people straight.
1. It does not take very long for a person to gain ranks in Casting...
2. You do not need GFG gear to get those ranks faster
3. Good casters in Catacombs make good melee characters look mediocre (unless vs EPs or no AoE)
4. Mana is only an issue on Alchemist, as they do not use a weapon... but they also have mass mana to compensate
5. It is a new age... Hybrid Melee/Caster is the way to go on 90% of other characters... mind you... even a Warlock would be ideal

Let us put it this way...
Caster / Melee Hybrid is the way to go for Catacombs

1. Funny, but for a person who has a highest prof rank of what, 5 in casting? You claim a lot of experience there.
2. I agree. You need an enormous vault and enough patience to stash everything you find 1-30 for later level shrining.
3. What's this "unless" bullshit? Look, if you don't understand about balanced teams, then you're hopeless.
4. That's bullshit too. A mage's melee damage vs their casting damage is absolute shit. Balance your team, and your melee is little to none. Melee-heavy team, or caster-heavy with casters who have shitty prof? Bah.
5. Waste of time, more like. The melee folks can heal, one of the casters can drive, and the casters kill the "common" mobs as well as ambush, the melee do the "cleanup" and EPs, it works quite well. NN for constant gear switching.

'Tis okay though. Your insistance that profs aren't hard vs your lack of casting profs shows a far truer story.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Mar 15 2010 02:14pm

You my friend have no insight what so ever.
1. Those 5 ranks are just 22 hours of gaming... that is less than 1 full day...
2. You do not need a massive vault... use EES gear on mules that are high level... vault is for gear usage
3. Balanced team... try this... 1 tank (melee) / 2 casters / 1 healer (switch melee forget hybrid) / 1 melee... it is not rocket science
4. You ever think of switching out gear?... it is not rocket science or brain surgery
5. So... you think Paladin / Monk / Ninja are wasted to be Melee / Caster hybrids???... shit they are already Melee / Healer Hybrids...

You are narrow sighted by mentioning my CASTING profs when you do NOT take into account these:
1. Rank 20 Sword (been melee since I started late 1.17 just before reset)
2. Rank 13 Staff (during my time as Monk)
3. Rank 07 Dagger
4. Rank 07 Axe
5. Rank 10 Focus Heal (Hardest proficiencies to gain out of melee / casting)
6. Rank 5 Ice which only took 22 hours to gain... and that is not including the other casting/melee profs that I gained at the same time.
.. Over 15,000 proficiency points gained in less than 24 hours... that is alot
7. NOTE: this is including 38 deaths which means I have lost many thousands of Proficiency points.

Anyway... you can doubt my comments all you like... it does not make you correct.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Mar 15 2010 02:35pm

Bah, you're dysfunctional, I think.

your first set of points:

1. You don't optimize. From 25-71 I currently get around 5000 points into prof. Bit more or a bit less, but that's roughly accurate. That portion of my climb, optimizing for profs, takes me about 3.5 to 4 hours. That means your little 15K points is 10.5-12 hours. ysoslow? Oh, and even Roy on his HC HH manages around 1K prof points per hour in Axe prof, yet he spends more time healing than hitting.
2. See point 1.
3. Try a warlock, a mage, a monk and ninja, and a headhunter. or perhaps two warlocks, monk or ninja, mage, and headhunter. Worked like a charm. 2.5 hour climb w/breaks? Oh, and that's exploring, none of this back and forth bullshit.
4. Sure. I switch out when I wish to go to the next tier of gear. I drive and I kill. I have no time to waste making up for unbalanced teams.
5. Huh? Mage/Warlock/Alch cast. The rest hit and heal. Simple stuff, really. The only time that routine should be broken is in the case of Ambush, when a caster can provide backup heals. Power. If you can roll over the mobs before they realize you're there, then you dominate the catacombs. Which part is difficult for you to understand?

your second set of points:
1. How does sword prof make you a pro at dictating what is required for casting? You still don't understand that 90% of prof gained from a climb comes from 55+, and shrines are a must. Less so for warlock and alch, but for a mage? Seriously dude, switching chars for shrinables? Or did you think 20 shriners will get you through?
2. So you constantly heal. What's that have to do with casting? That's healing. Again, if you wish to see a char that heals, look at Royko. He's got you beat like a redheaded stepchild. Or Timwam perhaps? Hmmm...
3. Again, you could have gone much faster. You simply don't understand how to build for prof climbing very well. The less time you spend switching shit about, the more casting, the faster your profs gain.


Edit: BTW, I should mention. I have really REALLY shitty daggers at low level, though I did find a nice lvl5 dagger. That 1 dagger prof? I was at 0 with 0 points. Went to rank 1 with about 8 percent in a 1-18 climb as Samurai. Took about 35 minutes. I still say melee is boss for prof climbing.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Mar 15 2010 02:58pm

You my friend are trying to win an argument based on BULLSHIT maths.
NOTE: I am referring to Arena (fastest way to gain profs)... by some of your comments... you are talking about Catacombs... if so... that is auto fail for you.

Below: Refers to your # 1 & # 2
Points to take into consideration for calculating proficiency point gains per level are:
1. You only get 1-10 (10 being Maximum) proficiency points per monster (Arena)
2. It takes the exact same monster kills per level you gain (MCC 34 Feeder / MCC 38 Ninja etc)
3. Your killing speed reduces your proficiency speed. (1 hit kills do not gain Prof Points)

NOTE1: no matter what level you are... you have to kill the exact amount of monsters to gain 1 level...
... Your BULLSHIT about level 25 - 71 is false... the only reason that you MAY gain more proficiency points
... is based on the fact that you do NOT kill the monster... thus you keep your prof points but gain no experience points

NOTE2: Killing speed is recognised as being a factor in gaining prof points.
... It does not matter what level you are... it depends on the amount of ACTIONS it takes for each monster
... this is where at higher levels it seems you are gaining more proficiencies... in actual fact...
... if you were doing the exact amount of actions at lower levels, you would be gaining the same amount of
... proficiency points... taking into consideration that you can only gaine 1-10 prof points per monster
_____________

3. And you talk about balance... sheesh
4. So @ 55 you switch out gear??? ... as for 1-55, that is just basic common sense.
5. Sheesh... that is the norm... stay in that era... I once heard of a Melee Warlock that done well... guess you haven't.
______________

Other points you want to discuss about:
1. To get to Rank 20 either Sword or Ice... you need the exact amount of Proficiency points per level... are you that blind, or are you trying to justify your ignorance?
.. Rank20 Fire = 210,000 Proficiency Points
.. Rank20 Sword = 210,000 Proficiency Points
.. Time factor as an argument...NO... both have to regen at the same time intervals... only thing is... caster regens Mana faster than Melee regening life, if you think I am BULLSHITTING YOU... guess again... every 25 Intelligence points gives you +1 Mana Regen, and because most casters life is around 2/3 of a Melee character, the caster regens life in the same manner as most melee build.
2. you think my barb/sammy/monk/ninja constantly heals???? what are you trying to argue here? ... honestly pointless
3. omg... you still gain the same amount of proficiency points no matter what... even if you switch out gear... you have utilised casting all your mana (mana is gone) so you have gained all the prof points in that area... now you switch to melee gear... and guess what... you gain more proficiency points... BUT with another item.

If you have no insight or brains what-so-ever... do not argue BULLSHIT to just try and argue... basically all your points have been slammed into your own face because you did not use logic... but never the less... I am sure you will consider your reasonings based on your points... and I will endeavour to do the same...

HINT: get to actually know the mechanics of the game before you mention BS...

because they can do high dmg and can do infinity of them but caster cant do always mega crit because they have a maximum of mana... but im voting yes because there is more melee char than caster

IzParagonzi is one of the best prof hunter on Ls so i think he know the subject more than many people..

This post was edited by TiMasse on Mar 15 2010 03:47pm

I don't understand just get 28axe/dagger/casting and heal prof and you are fine. that + a 5% quickdraw glyph.

Btw Izi & Dom, I haven't really took the time to read your e-matching posts but you guys should kiss and make up with your prof points



Well to be honest, the best way to gain profs as they are a passive addition to your char (you don't have to do anything special to gain them besides clicking, which you should be doing anyway). Is just click and MQ, saying that someone is the best prof hunter because they reroll or use vitality setups to gain more profs, we all know what happened with the last 2-3 ppl that gained profs in that fashion

-20 dagger for dumbo?
-10 sword for homero?

This post was edited by benell on Mar 15 2010 03:50pm

I think Roy just solved it.

guess we can close the topic now