Quote (Jupiter5 @ Sep 13 2024 09:56am)

So you kind of contradicted your point from your topic. ^^

Transmuting has almost always been good and it's everything else that has been nerfed.

Of course transmuting should be better than playing the game the way it works now, because you need to get to high ranks to transmute high items and that's 99% of the purpose of the skill.

If it was better or the same to explore for good drops instead of transmuting, then why would you transmute at all? The skill becomes pointless if you have to grind all the ranks just to be even with exploring or "playing the game".

If you take softcore now for example, you get about 20-50% of the value of an essence by just selling the transmutable, mainly for high lvl items of course.

For example 55s are roughly 20 fg and a 55 essence is roughly 40 fg, so you already get half of the price of the essence by just dropping the item. And that should be as high as it should go, because if the person finding the items gets more than 50%, then it's completely pointless to spend a minimum of 3 years to get to rank 56 muting, when you can just play the game and drop 55s as soon as you start the game.

So transmuting is alright, it's always been similar to what it is now, the problem in HC is that you get low fg for selling transmutable items it seems. But this automatically means that people prefer to solo and play the game and there aren't enough active muters to buy all your items (So they can always find someone else selling cheaper items). Because it's a self regulating system, if you get too many muters and too little items, they'll all be forced to pay more like what's happening in Softcore. And like I said, at some point it might become more profitable to find the new items instead of muting them, which is ridiculous, but if that ever happens then people will start farming more items instead of muting and the system will self regulate.



As for this topic... drop rates for high stat/ee items aren't great. ^^ You need to grind a lot to find something good on average and you also need to grind a significant time to just farm medium items on a regular bases.

Quote (SouthernComfort @ 14 Sep 2024 00:21)

Transmuting is the only thing holding this game together. I’m even doing the grind up little by little. The shit is aids, but if I can Reroll an item over and over and refresh the stats of course at some point it will be good. You can do a climb and not find a single 55 item. You can also roll 2,000 essence and not get a good item.

Just to be clear on what I’m saying, I can do 2,000 climbs and not find an item and I can also mute 2,000 items and not get a good item. The difference is, I’m rolling a 55 2,000 times and every climb I’m not 100% finding at least 1 55 item.

Quote (Jupiter5 @ 14 Sep 2024 01:56)

As for this topic... drop rates for high stat/ee items aren't great. ^^ You need to grind a lot to find something good on average and you also need to grind a significant time to just farm medium items on a regular bases.

Quote (izParagonzi @ Sep 13 2024 08:02pm)

Basically you are correct with what I stated in my second paragraph, however I got off topic in a way, and I think others followed.

"Drop Rate" does NOT influence "Drop Quality" (Enhanced Effect, Stats etc)

"Drop Rate" ONLY increases items to drop. (Hence my reference to muting)

"Drop Quality" has increased, but is practically shit, and no, you can not figure out your chances of EE% or +X# stat on them, it is all RNG. However, just do what every one else does... just mute... you have a better chance because you just wear ML gear while muting (no danger skilling up in town) and increase your chance to create a great item... you don't even have to go into the catacomb that much.



Difference with the past to updates muting... Drop Rate / Quality in the past was pathetic to how it is now, also, people moaned so much about the proficiency muting, Paul increased the amount of prof points gained while muting (and skilling) to a point where Muting is OP ... take a look at all the other skills... fishing & cooking for example... cooking is shit, and the introduction of Suffering... how many people take up that... fuck all, and what is worse, you need fucking essences from transmuting to even get better at Suffering (needs a work around... get rid of essences for this skill for starters).

I do 100% agree with this paragraph that I took from your quote.

Quote (Light_Prince @ 14 Sep 2024 10:34)

To touch on this: wasn't the old muting system even wilder? Like you could seriously combine certain items for certain high end ridiculous stats?

Quote (Jupiter5 @ 14 Sep 2024 11:45)

I never understood how it worked, nobody explained it fully or with 100% certainty. Maybe it was changed or adjusted multiple times in a short period and nobody remembers? It's been so long, but it's safe to say it was better than now, but it seems everything was. ^^

What I've heard is you could reroll certain items for guaranteed certain stats and I think there was no prof or if there was, you could reroll a 55 item at rank 1 so you didn't really need the prof anyway..?

Can someone explain how it worked and be sure about it?

Here are a bunch of questions! :lol:


1. How exactly did you reroll these items, item A + item B always = item C with guaranteed stats? Or item A + an essence? Did you need certain ranks to mute a lvl 55 item or could you always mute everything?
2. And what does guaranteed stats even mean ^^ You always get a 150-250 EE, you always get a random EE roll?
3. Or what if you used items/essences that are rare++, 1 stat is guaranteed to be EE the other random or you can chose a combination of 2 or more stats to be guaranteed?
4. What about transmuting lvl 0 items since there was no cap on the tiers, why would you not transmute a lvl 0 armor/charm with 50str/dex + 1k life or whatever? (Because if I understand correctly, all of these unspawns aren't from muting, but only from drops?)
Think I've also heard somewhere that str/dex/int didn't boost your dmg? But that makes no sense, what did they do then, maybe I misunderstood something. Also also actually actually heard that there were 0 skills in the beginning, so maybe those 50 str tier 1 items were already unspawn by the time skills were added, so you couldn't mute them.
5. Was there any skilling prof and if yes, did you need certain ranks to do certain things or could you always do everything and just get prof from doing it? If there was none, then it's implied you could always do everything.

Quote (Light_Prince @ 14 Sep 2024 12:07)

Just a statement: getting high prof points per item muted, like 40-60 or whatever, takes a shit load of time generally. You can fish/cook more items and get about the same amount of prof points as one transmuted item. Again, all depending on the skill levels and item levels etc.

Quote (izParagonzi @ Sep 13 2024 08:23pm)

I don't know the specifics as well, but there was no need for Proficiency (that refers to everything) #5 answered.

Something I was informed about, certain stats modifier on the items transmuted specifically applied to a different stat modifier, combining certain modifiers in the hopes of creating a specific item with the modifiers you wanted... however the item may change (again, hearsay).

Based on chance & luck as well. Also, not all unspawns are from drops. on another note, I believe Paparicks 3 stat heavy armor is a Muted item before proficiency came about, and that was not a drop... HOWEVER, I could be wrong with this statement since it was told to me by only 1 other person. Labby may know more.

I would like some answers to your questions as well to be honest. :D



Dang... 40-60 prof points, beats 0-10 max prof points per wave vs 80 monster kills per level... like hitting 0 is the worse luck vs a guaranteed 40-60 prof points.

Quote (Light_Prince @ 14 Sep 2024 12:39)

Yes, however the 40-60 aren't guaranteed because you can fail the item, lose the item and get no prof. Also, those high prof points times take a lot of time. Several minutes sometimes. Where as you can clear a wave and keep rolling very quickly.

Quote (izParagonzi @ Sep 13 2024 10:24pm)

True, we are playing Tic Tac Toe at the moment.

I deleted a wall of text, how about you think about the time a person does a catacomb run to say level 30 or 35 just to find level 20-25 (Tier VIII) arcane + items to put on the MP for like what... 1 fg for HC and maybe 2 or 3 fg for SC, and you are complaining about failing 1 item.

How many Tier VIII Arcane items drop... fuck all, makes it worse for Tier IX + Arcane items or Mythical... they don't grow on fucking trees with the Drop Rate. Muters have it easy nowadays with Drop Rate.

Quote (Light_Prince @ 14 Sep 2024 04:48)

I'm not complaining about failing an item. I was literally making a point about time vs prof and how it basically balances out. You're the one complaining about a skill that you don't even use lol. Take the time to level muting up to let's say level 10 and then get back to us.

Quote (izParagonzi @ 13 Sep 2024 21:24)

I deleted a wall of text, how about you think about the time a person does a catacomb run to say level 30 or 35 just to find level 20-25 (Tier VIII) arcane + items to put on the MP for like what... 1 fg for HC and maybe 2 or 3 fg for SC, and you are complaining about failing 1 item.

How many Tier VIII Arcane items drop... fuck all, makes it worse for Tier IX + Arcane items or Mythical... they don't grow on fucking trees with the Drop Rate. Muters have it easy nowadays with Drop Rate.

Quote (0ppressed @ Sep 14 2024 07:27am)

yeah im 3 years into muting, albeit not as constant as i could be, and only rank 28 muting on hc.



yeah tier VIII arcane items that come out as magical or rare essence more than half the time.

at high end of the spectrum items can take minutes, but give the best xp.. low end no xp but take 20-30 seconds?

It's not easy at all to mute. It's just the most financially secure way to make fg at this game.