Quote (Jupiter5 @ Jun 6 2020 07:09pm)

Can't speak for muting and I believe you ofc. Lots of people have complained

But just a quick rough estimate:

You're rank 44 muting + some % which is about 1000 k prof points total

We previously agreed that you get around 1k prof per 1h spent, so if we don't count any non prof mutes you might have rolled, that's around 1000k hours spent

It usually takes me around 5 hours to do a full solo climb the way I do it with all the welling/exploring/wearing ml

The last good item I found was (below) and I found it around May 15th last year

Mystical ice X
Level Req: 35
Spell Damage: 135 to 162
Mana Cost: 77

+170% Enhanced Effect
+5% Experience Gained
+1 Jubilance

I must have done 100 solos and some group explores / mirror mazes since and the best drop I got is this:

Rare adamantium chain mail
Level Req: 35
Physical Defense: 92 to 231
Magical Defense: 0 to 58

+193% Enhanced Effect
+3% Damage Return

Even though it's a decent drop, it's still a chain. And the game drops chains/plates/clubs/ 70% of the times cause they're worth nothing

So for the past 500-600 playing hours or so my best drops are that chain plus these 2:

Mystical embossed leather armor
Level Req: 25
Physical Defense: 29 to 87
Magical Defense: 18 to 74

+132% Enhanced Effect
+7 Strength
+2% Life Steal

Magical wind IX
Level Req: 30
Spell Damage: 43 to 193
Mana Cost: 69

+139% Enhanced Effect

Everything else is 100 - 300 fg at most. I'd like to point out that both the chain + the ice dropped from welling and I think one of the other 2 drops was also from a well

This is extremely important, because I've spent roughly 15 - 20k fg on buying whites on top of the 5 - 10k I would've made on selling the ones I find. So I'm trying to "force" a drop and in the end I've still scored a massive loss regardless

I can theory craft further, but the post is already too long :D

Quote (JonWon @ Jul 25 2019 12:30pm)

16 mute :bouncy:

Quote (TexanDiablo @ 5 Apr 2011 01:55)

I think right now I am at 6 mutes per percent, so 600 for next prof. So thats 600 X 3 min per = 1,800 min = 30 hrs for 20 to 21 prof

Quote (JonWon @ Jun 7 2020 02:39am)

This is my first find transmuting:

Magical alloy dagger
Level Req: 15
Damage: 126 to 221

+118% Enhanced Effect

I would have to be rank 16 in transmuting just to roll this.

I hit rank 16 on July of 2019.

This is what I have to show going from rank 16-44 from July 2019 to today June 6 2020

Magical alloy dagger
Level Req: 15
Damage: 46 to 80

+639 Max Mana
---

Arcane fine alloy dagger
Level Req: 20
Damage: 68 to 120

+1 Vitality
+39 Intelligence
+146 Max Life
+99 Max Mana
+3 Mana Regen
+1% Armor Pierce
---

Magical sapphire dagger
Level Req: 30
Damage: 194 to 340

+120% Enhanced Effect
---

Magical adamantium axe
Level Req: 35
Damage: 201 to 241

+133% Enhanced Effect

you get around 1k prof per 1h spent
if this is true, can you roughly calculate how many hours i have invested from that time from to go from rank16-44?

Quote (Jupiter5 @ Jun 6 2020 08:23pm)

Definitely way too many for just these items of course :( It's about ~860

But even so, if you compare these 3 items with the chain + wind + leather I found for my last ~500-600 ( yes that's a lot less ) they are still worth around the same or more fg

The only good thing about muting is that you can at least aim for specific items, so that 1 time you finally hit a 200+ ee dagger/axe etc you'll make 20k+ fg

If you're exploring/welling, that one time you hit a 200+ ee item it's gonna be a robe or in best case scenario plate/club/staff

Still not saying muting is better than killing mobs, but it's not a whole lot worse either imo, at least from maths points of view. But realistically it is, because it feels incredibly boring and slow paced compared to killing things, which at least has SOME sort of non-boring factor in it

We can always speculate how much luck was involved in my data or your data, because someone's always gonna be unlucky compared to other people

To sum up, I agree that muting is currently less rewarding than killing mobs, but not by much when you factor in everything

Quote (iToons @ Jun 6 2020 09:45pm)

Also, dont forget the time you have to be in catacombs to find the items :)

Quote (JonWon @ Jun 7 2020 11:39am)

This is my first find transmuting:

Magical alloy dagger
Level Req: 15
Damage: 126 to 221

+118% Enhanced Effect

I would have to be rank 16 in transmuting just to roll this.

I hit rank 16 on July of 2019.

This is what I have to show going from rank 16-44 from July 2019 to today June 6 2020

Magical alloy dagger
Level Req: 15
Damage: 46 to 80

+639 Max Mana
---

Arcane fine alloy dagger
Level Req: 20
Damage: 68 to 120

+1 Vitality
+39 Intelligence
+146 Max Life
+99 Max Mana
+3 Mana Regen
+1% Armor Pierce
---

Magical sapphire dagger
Level Req: 30
Damage: 194 to 340

+120% Enhanced Effect
---

Magical adamantium axe
Level Req: 35
Damage: 201 to 241

+133% Enhanced Effect

you get around 1k prof per 1h spent
if this is true, can you roughly calculate how many hours i have invested from that time frame to go from rank16-44?

Quote (Jupiter5 @ Jun 7 2020 12:23pm)

Definitely way too many for just these items of course :( It's about ~860

But even so, if you compare these 3 items with the chain + wind + leather I found for my last ~500-600 ( yes that's a lot less ) they are still worth around the same or more fg

The only good thing about muting is that you can at least aim for specific items, so that 1 time you finally hit a 200+ ee dagger/axe etc you'll make 20k+ fg

If you're exploring/welling, that one time you hit a 200+ ee item it's gonna be a robe or in best case scenario plate/club/staff

Still not saying muting is better than killing mobs, but it's not a whole lot worse either imo, at least from maths points of view. But realistically it is, because it feels incredibly boring and slow paced compared to killing things, which at least has SOME sort of non-boring factor in it

We can always speculate how much luck was involved in my data or your data, because someone's always gonna be unlucky compared to other people

To sum up, I agree that muting is currently less rewarding than killing mobs, but not by much when you factor in everything

Quote (JonWon @ Jun 7 2020 12:47pm)

So 854 hours in 317 days, that's about 9 hours/day. But there's faster muting events, so even if that's more like 7hr/day of transmuting - maybe half that time I'm even rolling essences on items.
And when I'm not rolling items, I'm buying items off the MP.. just to break down into essences to roll on items... to find nothing :rolleyes:

I get what you're saying, when you finally hit that 200ee dagger/axe, but realistically - you have to hit Rank 36 just to roll on a Lvl 35item for a chance at a 200ee item.

Thanks for the conversation, I mean I love LS and this obviously strikes a cord with me personally with how much time I have devoted as of recent. I'm happy to talk about it and analyze it the best we can given what we have lol

Quote (izParagonzi @ Jun 7 2020 02:29am)

Wow... this is so NOT interesting or even compatible to dispute... think about the HOURS you have BOTH spent Muting that you BOTH have not thought about that same time climbing and hunting for the items while gaining prof points to enhance your KILLSPEED during every run gathering PROF points. Okay... you can MUTE items with great bonuses, but, you are NOT going to get the same chance of finding them because you spend so much time wasted on Skilling instead of building up your killspeed and mf'ing in the way of Profs etc?

I love this kind of inconsequential bullshit since MUTING got an OVERHAUL from when it mattered. FFS, you can gain more profs in killing speed and using that time to hunt better items instead of skilling something that takes up the investment of time that you have to OBTAIN items to skill yourself (either wasting fg or hunting for yourself) over improving killspeed to make faster runs for faster MF'ing.

EDIT: the only ones that can post here are those that have ALREADY spent the time Muting, but, if you are a first time to this... don't waste your time... this is my opinion... and... you can not argue against my opinion other than voice your own. (hope you have proof of muting to be worthwhile)

Quote (HylianHero @ 7 Jun 2020 00:25)

Rerolling should be instant with no experience. Then ALL levels of rolling an item would be worthwhile to keep and essences might have more value. Just my thought.