can't disagree on the main idea


anyway back to guardian or not
Think of it this way
For a guardian to heal efficiently, it needs to spam int, it cannot use the int stat to deal damage.
A barb Tank only needs 20-30 stats into vit then can spam strength and the backline warlocks already have max int, so it's pretty efficent for one of them to just go healer.


Theoretically your best tank should be an alchemist/warlock as it's able to deal out significant damage thanks to paraphysical or multicast. Then use salvation/multiheal. Signficantly higher damage output than a guardian. But generally wasted as a tank, seeing it does similar damage to warlock.

So basically healer is a must have, but the healer isn’t just healing... actually most of the time isn’t healing?

I think that’s where it’s not making sense to me... would be awesome if this game was popular enough to have vids on YouTube, like someone playing healer stream a climb so I can watch what they do

Tanking I barely ever hear the heal sound until late levels, but everything goes so fast I can’t watch the healer and who/how often they heal back row people

That's the general idea yea, it's going to vary greatly depending on how good the group is and how good the healer is but in a really good group in a whistle climb the healer isn't going to do much until late levels mostly cuz everything dies so quickly

Your gear is good enough to be valuable to a group as a tank and deal dmg. In a standard climb just pump vit to like 80ish (varying a bit depending on how good he group and healer is) then put everything else in str and hit monsters with your club, you'll be good

depends on the group, the faster the group the less heals which are needed which then goes double as less heals = healer does more damage.

Healing is basically not necessary in most climbs until level 30, the healer "might" throw a few out if someone got pulled to front or just got focused, in 99% of cases there is no danger until then, where you can safely allow players to go down to half health and not worry.
Even at 30-55, you probably only heal about 50-100 times and would have ~1500-2000 actions by that point.
At level 55 about 1 in 5 actions are heals, from 65-75 probably around 1 in 3 of the healer actions are heals. Level 75+ more like 1 in 2. Again depends on the group. These numbers are me guessing about my monk offcast.

The weaker the group and the weaker the healer, the more healing actions are required. For example a mage using a 120ee heal going to 83 would probably be healing 90% of the actions from lvl 75+. Whilst a warlock with a 200ee heal, does more like 1 in 4.

depand where your safety nets starts

in whistly climb its not rare that i heal as a main healer not till lvl 50/55
50-70 couple heals per lvl ( 5-10 in total per lvl )
75-83 abit more maybe go 3-4 pt in mutli heal

exploring
70-75 80% cast / 20% heal
75+ you better heal in main slot OR you have stated 20-30% in multi heal and keep cast in main
85+ 60%+ in multi heal and main slot healing

tanks are in most cases useless, since you loose dmg, and dmg is time... only viable in MM or 75+ explore then you need a tank


This post was edited by Denn1s on Oct 30 2020 10:11am

in addition Pally has a GREAT skill called HealBack.


with a decent heal charm, maybe a HM glyph or some peice of equipment that has HM as a sidemod, that Pally Tank can heal 500+ every 10 seconds or so. can almost do a full climb without the Healer having to actually Heal = more dmg = faster climbs = less healing needed.




i wonder how a team of 5 Warlocks would do, one wearing a tank robe set like Sub has? but then you would run into those cursed full Charm immunes, so maybe that would outweigh the additional extra dmg from the 5th lock..

but then you couldbasically just take turns casting multicast... kill them before they can even activate the skill... interesting

This post was edited by a_hotter_otter on Oct 30 2020 10:38am

Basically the faster the group kills waves and you level up, the less need for healing actions.
The higher levels take longer to kill the waves and deal more damage and so healing actions are required.

Main Healers role is not to let the group members go below 33% hit points (SC) 50% hit points (HC)
A main healer role can be either a Caster or Tanker (i.e. Guardian or Paladin are great tank/heal).
There can be more casters in group (say 2 Warlocks), one Warlock will take the role as main healer whereas the other would be backup healer.
The group dynamic should revolve around faster killspeed for the group as well as a competent healer(s)

As a Guardian or Paladin Tank / Healer, they should be built for damage output in the lower to mid levels (45) while tanking, BUT, they can still deal damage while healing at higher levels. Killspeed will drop in comparison to a Tank/Melee build with a caster / healer (or more) in group.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Oct 30 2020 02:42pm

I think 5 warlocks would be the fastest climb : ) just needs like 1 wl to stat 100vita or so

4 WL and 50-60vit HH with stat/ee mq armor would be faster

yeah that would been my second guess