doing runs in a climb should not count since technically you could just sit there and do nothing and still get the exp to get you to 71. doesnt prove anything regarding the build you use in my opinion

You obviously didn't read the first post or the additions I made.

I did more damage just by using an offcast ability, that is what I want to get proven by you. If it is not the case and highly tested, Paul may buff these so it is worth using them more often or at least they are a choice

But people just read: charges by weapon usage
and think: must be really bad and sucks

I read it. I’m sort of looking at it from the stand point of someone like myself who does not have godly hybrid gear or ee gear. My stuff is average. Using a normal setup I am able to do 1-71 with little issue even on ep monsters. At 65 it does get challenging and if there is a event with increased monster difficulty then I have to whistle. This is with the normal cookie cutter barbarian/samurai/paladin build. I don’t see how going hybrid at my lvl and gear would be an improvement. Especially at the higher lvls I believe it would be much slower and much more difficult

it is not about going hybrid, going hybrid is just one possibility that I didnt even test yet.

See my last edit, maybe it clears up a lot of stuff

To me, if you don’t have a good set of heals, especially high lvl heals, going hybrid won’t help you. Next most important thing is cast charm, but you don’t necessarily need a godlike cast charm. You could go with 170 ee or maybe 90 ee and 35 str or something like that. If there was no hybrid option, you would really never have a reason to equip the latter charm, but It’s an option that few take advantage of because there is really no reason for them to with their playstyle. Your playstyle would probably benefit from it if you had good heals and some damage charms, but without, then no worries, just opt not to try it out until/unless you do



Doesn’t have to be THAT good. Viable probably starting around 90 ee lvl 55 heal, which you should be able to afford, but you’ll definitely want ee armor instead of stat armor if you’re hunting high lvl EPs with a bare minimum heal. The beauty of statting int and using cast abilities that charge on weapon is that you can use 98% of your large mana pool to chain heal when needed.

This post was edited by BWConformity on Jul 19 2018 05:39pm

I have 126 fg. Anyone want to sell me a 200ee or better heal!? Yeah....I thought not =(

I’ve tried them all. In group climbs they are of low efficiency for the same reason they are in solo climbs. The easiest fix is to change how they charge.

I understand the hybrid idea “melee first who can also cast damage”. This is how the abilities were designed. A cast that charges with a weapon therefore means you will have to attack more with melee to get it to charge to the desired % to be used. That’s great and a great idea that does allow the game to be versatile. That is something needed in all games and there is enough gear in the game right now that will allow for this style of play from beginner to the 1%.

Where it, to me, gets inefficient and therefore no one wants to deal with this style is this:

To play in this way you have to really split your stat and ability points up more than typical builds which reduces an already lower damage producing build even more. Making it much more of a grind to be playable so much so you can still do more damage and be more efficient off class casting a melee character than trying to hybrid and so someone will try it once and never again.

The other issue. Because of the above listed factors and then trying to play hybrid while soloing gets to feeling futile because of the damage ratios of the abilities. They must have a higher damage ratio than the mainstream ones. Mainly because of spreading your stat points thin reducing damage. having another 30-50 stats into int still won’t be enough. On HC it’s non existent because you’re statting more vita then splitting between melee and casting stat points on an already lower damage build, killer. If the damage ratio was say doubled it would be worth testing again.

That’s only to make it seem worthwhile to use. Paul has made it clear now though they are in the game for the diversity of play and for those who want the feel of a challenge, non cookie cutter type of play. That’s great. Sad for those who see some different potential possibilities there though.

Would like to do a group climb all using alt builds and record some data and compare to the cookie cutter style though.

This post was edited by PowerTripped on Jul 19 2018 05:54pm

it is not worth putting any point into int for them. You dont need the mana at all. Just get a int+stat charm, which should be cheaper to get than a real stat charm since it is consider "useless"

Holy shit where to even begin?!

I guess I’ll start off with the gear... your gear is so godly and basically unobtainable by damn near everyone playing unless they already have incredible gear to start with. If you have any issues climbing with that gear with or without skills you are doing it wrong. Furthermore the dagger/charm you are using are so strong they are basically nonexistent on HC not to even start in that dex/int robe

Next the group play... basically if you only show these builds to be viable during group play it’s tantamount to saying these builds are only viable on SC as hc rarely has enough people online at the same time to fill a game if everyone wants to climb to start with. Most climbs are completed solo. Beyond that a group provides all the things this build lacks... a tank and a way to heal.

Efficiency... as powertripped has already pointed out. In order to make a build like this viable you either need really nice hybrid type gear or you need to split the points up both in stats and ability. He further points out the build would be even further limited on Hc where statting at least some vit is required. Straight melee or straight caster is both more efficient damage wise (yes your average was higher but with high charges it might be inflated through that paired with crits) and overal effort. Why switch between melee and casting when you can do similar/more damage without having to juggle the types of attack you are using in order to use/charge skills?

3skills... umm there is absolutely no reason you couldn’t be using 3x skills before besides your personal choices. I have only limited myself to 2 skills on a couple occasions and normally a full whistle climb was involved. You most definitely don’t have to play a fucked up build like this in order to use 3 skills on monk and if you do it’s your choice.



Paul is right I haven’t tried the skills and unless the way they charge is changed i will continue to play the game as if those skills don’t exist. There is no reason to go through all the hassle involved with playing a build like you described and even less reason to do it when the gear that would be required to make it better than a standard character literally doesn’t exist on HC. I’ll continue to watch your tests but unless you can show an actual benefit gained I can’t see the reason to waste time climbing this way. 50dmg increased average could be just by chance. Even if it isn’t chance and the build actually does perform better than your standard build, the effort and specific gear required to do so make it non-viable for the majority of players in the game.

This post was edited by Cheeya on Jul 19 2018 09:01pm

oops Misspoke it wasn’t an int dex robe it was the charm... which is also unspawnable.... and has 4 crit as well. the robe is still sexy af... dex/crit/ap

So not only are you getting almost 70dex from gear but also almost 30int, 2ap and 5crit. On top of using 220+ ee charm/dagger. Please go buy average 130-150ee gear without crazy one of a kind unspawnable items and retest it. Then move onto playing the game Paul clearly wants it to be played and actually explore the whole climb using that average gear and let us know how EPs work out for ya.

It’s like if trump told a beggar that they should be able to make billions themselves too but conveniently disregarding the “small” loan of a million dollars that got him there.

This post was edited by Cheeya on Jul 19 2018 10:16pm