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Poll > Barehanded Combat > I Know, I Know, But Hear Me Out...
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Jan 2 2019 11:02pm
I've never been into barehanded combat in games that include weapons, but I think it could add something interesting to this game.

I envision it as something like this:

You can toggle to barehanded, just like switching from weapons and charms.

Your base damage with barehanded attacks depends on your level. Every level increases the flat damage by a small amount.

Barehanded attacks gain significant damage multiplier from strength, and crit chance from dexterity.

Weapon damage & EE have no effect on barehanded attacks, but other stats do apply (attributes, life steal, etc).

Pros:
---Adding new interesting mechanics to the game, which should always be welcomed!
---Adding diversity to player builds
---Adding value to weapon drops with melee-oriented stats, but no EE, which would be really great for the economy, and great for newer players
---Adding some flexibility for newer players trying to build gear sets as they unlock new classes

Cons:
---This would likely be very difficult to balance, requiring a lot of ongoing testing and tweaking for a long time, which seems really difficult for current development to keep up with
---This would be bad for glyphers, who would find that some items that were only good for glyphing, and therefore cheap to buy, glyph, and sell for profit, would now be very valuable for barehanded builds, and not worth glyphing

More on Balancing
(tl;dr on balancing: I know it would be hard to balance, but when you'r voting, just imagine a great system of balance was developed, and base your vote on that!)
I won't pretend to be able to come up with the right numbers here, but these are a few of the balancing issues that come to mind, just because it's fun to brain storm on it. Don't take any of these numbers are necessary parts of my suggestion when deciding how to vote.

Also, to a significant degree, deciding how to balance this would need a firm idea of what the intent is. Gearing for barehand combat would be very different than weapons or charms, because you won't need that all-important single item with high EE. Because of this, you will probably end up with a either a highly gear-dependent build that is pretty much useless without the amazing gear, or a generally well rounded build with a potential to get way OP. Finding a decent balance between these is would require floors, and caps, and diminishing returns, and blah blah blah. Lots of balancing.

It would probably be necessary to allow only certain classes to use this, or to have different base damages per class, or both. Especially for classes intended to be casters, it might not make sense to allow the m to bypass that intended gameplay in this way.

It would also probably be necessary for damage scaling from attributes to be effected by level. So, for instance, Strength may only add 1% at lvl 1, but up to 20% at level 55. (These rough numbers were based on a quick look at EE caps for tiers compared to how much strength you can get from those tiers.) Without this scaling, starting stats would most likely make barehand WAY too overpowered to justify any other weapons for the first few tiers. Trying to address this with per-level base damage seems like it would make it too underpowered at low levels. Fine-tuning the base damage might address this, but it seems like scaling the multiplier by level makes the most sense.

In terms of balancing the gear requisition process: Building up your gear sets is a major part of this game. Any balancing on this issue would be purely based on design intent, so this is super subjective (as opposed to the more objective matter of balancing the potential damage output versus other builds). Personally, I think this is an area of the game the needs more flexibility, for reasons I won't go into detail on. However, whatever your beliefs on this issue, the levers you would pull to balance on this aspect would involve taking a close look at how much +str/dex/whatever is needed to make the build viable, and how the challenge of gathering those gear sets compares to acquiring similar power levels in other builds. It probably wouldn't be ideal to creat a situation where, for any gap you have in your gear set, you can just fill in with you bare hands, and it won't matter. But, it think it would be beneficial to use different sets to fill in gaps, just like using a dagger or two in the middle of your sword set. Only, instead of needing a dagger with EE, you would use a dagger with +str, and swap to barehand.


What do you all think?? What interesting interactions would you include in this idea,that would make is a fun and diverse way to play the game?
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Jan 2 2019 11:56pm
Melee alchy here i come!!
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Jan 3 2019 01:43am
Haven't voted yet, but I will put this across for you.

Two(2) ideas here on barehanded items.
1. Armor worn comes with gloves, Robe & Padded = Hide type gloves, the EE on the Robe/Padded is included in your melee attack, this also applies to all armor types.
2. Introduce new item(s) and another slot for placement... different type of gloves, gauntlets etc they would NOT have as high of damage output as weapons though.

Another idea.
Different styles of unarmed combat per class, again this can use enhanced effect from the other two(2) ideas I posted above.

Note: just some balancing issues I believe that could aid you, I believe you can actually attack unarmed already, will have to test this out and get back to you on this.
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Jan 3 2019 03:58am
Tested: Because there is no Base item in weapon slot, it is 0 damage. I had 102 actions, all 0 damage. 54 Strength / 61 Dexterity.
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Jan 3 2019 06:04am
You can hit 1s punching on alch
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Jan 3 2019 07:06am
If you get the melee stats from an equipped weapon, are you really barehanded?
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Jan 3 2019 07:10am
There are some countries in the world that name the years after various animals,
such as the year of the dragon, or of the rooster, -- you get the drift

I have the feeling that this topic has been generated by a Vegan -
and is making a strong statement for the Year of the Nut
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Jan 3 2019 07:54am
Quote (Paparick @ 3 Jan 2019 15:10)
There are some countries in the world that name the years after various animals,
such as the year of the dragon, or of the rooster, -- you get the drift

I have the feeling that this topic has been generated by a Vegan -
and is making a strong statement for the Year of the Nut


:hail:
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Joined: Oct 17 2016
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Jan 3 2019 09:02am
Quote (izParagonzi @ 3 Jan 2019 03:43)
Haven't voted yet, but I will put this across for you.

Two(2) ideas here on barehanded items.
1. Armor worn comes with gloves, Robe & Padded = Hide type gloves, the EE on the Robe/Padded is included in your melee attack, this also applies to all armor types.
2. Introduce new item(s) and another slot for placement... different type of gloves, gauntlets etc they would NOT have as high of damage output as weapons though.

Another idea.
Different styles of unarmed combat per class, again this can use enhanced effect from the other two(2) ideas I posted above.

Note: just some balancing issues I believe that could aid you, I believe you can actually attack unarmed already, will have to test this out and get back to you on this.


These are interesting ideas, I'm not sure I would take in that direction, if it were up to me. But this would be one interesting way to control how barehand is differentiated by class, by setting different restrictions on the items that control your damage. I don't think using the EE from armor would work well, though, because then you could get 1 great piece of armor with high EE, and it be your defense and offense. Seems a bit too easy to gear for.

Quote (McDavid @ 3 Jan 2019 09:06)
If you get the melee stats from an equipped weapon, are you really barehanded?


Yes, your weapon is hilted, and your fighting with your bare hands. It's no differnt than getting benefits from a charm when you're attacking with your sword.

Quote (Paparick @ 3 Jan 2019 09:10)
There are some countries in the world that name the years after various animals,
such as the year of the dragon, or of the rooster, -- you get the drift

I have the feeling that this topic has been generated by a Vegan -
and is making a strong statement for the Year of the Nut


We can always rely on Rick to add nothing meaningful to the conversation. Just low quality trolling that doesn't really make any sense in the context, and further solidifies your "get off my lawn" image.
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Jan 3 2019 09:52am
Quote (Gearic @ Jan 3 2019 11:02am)
We can always rely on Rick to add nothing meaningful to the conversation. Just low quality trolling that doesn't really make any sense in the context, and further solidifies your "get off my lawn" image.


Yup - Vegans are a potential threat to my grass, so yeah - stay the hell off my lawn

And I just cannot resist adding meaningless comments to meaningless topics

Quote (Gearic @ Jan 3 2019 12:10pm)
Well, you could... but I guess self control, maturity, and general cognitive ability all follow the same downward slope in your old age.


Trying my best to come down a notch or two to be on the same playing field

This post was edited by Paparick on Jan 3 2019 10:20am
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