Quote (CPK001 @ 9 Feb 2021 15:23)

Here is the way I see it.

God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go either wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong; I cannot. If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata-of creatures that worked like machines-would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they must be free.

Of course God knew what would happen if they used their freedom the wrong way: apparently He thought it worth the risk. Perhaps we feel inclined to disagree with Him. But there is a difficulty about disagreeing with God. He is the source from which all your reasoning power comes: you could not be right and He wrong any more than a stream can rise higher than its own source. When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all: it is like cutting off the branch you are sitting on. If God thinks this state of war in the universe a price worth paying for free will-that is, for making a live world in which creatures can do real good or harm and something of real importance can happen, instead of a toy world which only moves when He pulls the strings-then we may take it it is worth paying.

Quote (death_knight @ Feb 9 2021 11:20pm)

Interesting point but this still does not address the concerns that would imply that your God is a fraud

As this applies to your response? Clearly god is then not just or merciful.. lettings humans make poor choices is one thing but allowing an innocent child to be savagely raped and murdered is a whole other level, as I see it the true God would not have allowed such horrible acts and the fact that our world is full of evil implies God doesnt have as much power as you are lead to believe or there is no God at all

My own personal studies indicate the universe is incredibly complex (and mathematical in nature) and possibly infinite in post past and future, to think there is a being that is beyond these laws of physics is mind boggling and if there is such a being then it would surely have better judgement than to create a world full of suffering and pain which you conveniently call free will

I don't reject the possibility of God, but rather I reject the notion that I am forced to obey him and if I don't I'm doomed, this concept is the basis for most doctrines and that simply doesn't not scare me

Quote (death_knight @ Feb 10 2021 02:20pm)

Interesting point but this still does not address the concerns that would imply that your God is a fraud

As this applies to your response? Clearly god is then not just or merciful.. lettings humans make poor choices is one thing but allowing an innocent child to be savagely raped and murdered is a whole other level, as I see it the true God would not have allowed such horrible acts and the fact that our world is full of evil implies God doesnt have as much power as you are lead to believe or there is no God at all

My own personal studies indicate the universe is incredibly complex (and mathematical in nature) and possibly infinite in post past and future, to think there is a being that is beyond these laws of physics is mind boggling and if there is such a being then it would surely have better judgement than to create a world full of suffering and pain which you conveniently call free will

I don't reject the possibility of God, but rather I reject the notion that I am forced to obey him and if I don't I'm doomed, this concept is the basis for most doctrines and that simply doesn't not scare me

Quote (EndlessSky @ Feb 10 2021 03:18pm)

Quote

Why Does This Have to Happen?

The next most logical question we need to ask is Why? Why did a loving God allow such a horrible thing to happen? And why do these future events have to happen? Not to lower God’s concept of love to Man’s carnal level, but so that you can relate to His eternal supreme majesty and power; Imagine if you will, that you had all the power over minds and hearts to make everyone automatically love you. The result of this would be total acceptance by everyone. In our baser desires and wants, you would have friendship, love and romance by anyone and everyone at your personal desire. A novel idea at first but in time this would begin to be empty in the sense of always knowing that it was your power over them that made everyone respond to you. How much deeper, how much richer would the relationships be if they chose you because they wanted to, or that they even were aware of a choice?

In the same respect but of a much higher level than man’s carnal idea of love, God, desired to bring this love relationship with His creation further along. This higher level of love is not motivated in the sense that God is lacking anything. Rather, it is His desire for a more richly, deeper, mature relationship with His creation. His creation never knew anything but perfection. They never experienced or knew of anything less. Not being their fault, but they would be like a bunch of spoiled rich kids! This situation is not the result that they were doing anything wrong. They simply could not appreciate what they had because they had never experienced anything else!

The only way a mature relationship could be accomplished would be to give creation a choice. This choice would obviously mean the creation of something with the potential of being the opposite and in contrast of Himself. Satan was created as God’s right hand man. Man then, stood in the middle, the outcome was already known and the plan made ready. Man would choose the wrong tree or path and it would then only be fair that God Himself would have to correct the error.

In doing this, when all is come to completion, man and all of creation sees by experience what anything less than God’s perfection would be like. Mankind would also appreciate much deeper the relationship they have with their Creator. Because God’s love for his creation is so great He insures that none of his creation will be “lost” in the whole process. This is why everyone in his or her own personal way (who was in the original plan, or the “Book of Life” as God’s seed, there are two seeds) will respond to His love in their time of mortal life. All they would have to do is exercise their own free will to overcome the artificial realities of this mortal life and respond to God’s prompting and Love. And they will! It is God’s guarantee of faithfulness and love for his creation.(Jo10:28,29)

What is gained by all of this? Man receives a deeper appreciation of the person of God. He receives a forever awe of the willing price God himself was willing to make to have this deeper relationship. He enters into a maturity knowing and experiencing something opposite of God’s perfection. Nothing is taken for granted and everything is appreciated with a depth that could not be realized in any other way. This new and deeper relationship with God is so Heaven and Earth shaking that it is necessary that a “new heaven and a new earth are created to contain it!

Jim Wilhelmsen (2009-01-21). Beyond Science Fiction! (pp. 290-291)

Quote (EndlessSky @ Feb 10 2021 12:18am)

Quote (marioo1182 @ Feb 14 2021 06:22am)

How much fg is this gonna cost me