NO.... there is is one part your missing. As Dumbldore said the key to everything was that harry let Voldemort kill him. The elder wand does not change owners unless it is won in a duel. Harry and voldemort did not duel the first time. Harry accepted his fate and died if harry would not have come back then the wand would have never had a true owner. The only way Voldemort could have been the true owner is if harry had attempted to defend himself and died. otherwise it was just death it matters not that voldemort killed him it was the same thing as suicide and during suicide the ownership of the wand does not change IT HAS TO BE WON which it was not.

but, as I said, at this point within kings cross shouldn't the piece of volemort that is inside harry already be destroyed? And dumbledore didn't say there is no point in helping him, he said their is nothing he can do about it.



Thats a good point too, I think "think, and try for some remorse, RIddle" that has something to do with it. But I don't know what would have happened if Voldemort had remorse.... But that doesn't explain why Voldemort is inside Harrys mind atm... if its what he will become their is not much logic to this.



good point, I didn't think about that. But this doesnt mean Harry died. I still support that voldemorts curse only killed the horcrux part of VOldemort inside harry, and harry's horcrux inside Voldemort kept Harry alive. You know how Voldemort cannot be killed until he has no more horcruxes left right? Well Harry can't be killed unless he has no more "horcruxes" left either, and the part of Harry inside Voldemort kept him alive.

The original owner of the elder wand was killed in his sleep wasnt he? That doesn't seem like it was won in a duel to me.

there we go. This is what I thought to begin with, that the elder wand was passed on by disarming the oponent, like Harry did with Malfoy, or by killing the owner. If this is true then its further proof that Harry did NOT die when Voldemort used avada kedavra on him.

While I believe that harry did not die when riddle used the killing spell, I believe that the Elder wand didn't change masters not because of that reason, but of the same reason the elder wand wouldn't have gone to snape if snape had been the first to dumbledore.

Harry (like dumbledore) had accepted his fate, and so the wand wouldn't have been won in a duel - the power would have been broken if harry had died (which he did not).

I think the flayed child is the 6 parts (of 8) of riddle's soul - the parts of the soul that were in the destroyed horocruxes - the ring, the locket, the cup, the diary, the diadem, and harry himself.

The soul of riddle would not have "gone on" if there were still 2 parts on earth - in Nagini and in Riddle himself.

the only problem with your theory is that we don't know if the elder wand was working correct because no one was able to use it correctly after dumbledore died so we will never know on that part.


now as far as Harry dieing. If you look at it in today's terms then you would be correct in that he did not die because he came back. But if he didn't die how was dumbledore there? Was it just a dream? If so why was the flayed child there? I believe that he died and his blood inside voldemort with his mothers protection on it allowed him to come back from the dead. and unless J K herself tells us for sure which way, I don't believe we will know which way for sure. Where as I understand both of our theories I will still beleive in mine but you did give me something to think on.

agreed. And I still believe in mine. Which brings us back to the beggining, all we have are theory's :S

i beleive the child is the horcruxs that had been destroyed, a flawed and painfull representation of a partial soul

of course once the horcruxs where destroyed they have to reunite somewhere, and what harry say was a representation of the impartial soul of voldemort, thats why when he told him about the remorse (youll remember erlier in the book when they say that the only way to recombine horcruxs is with remorse?) he was trying to get voldemort to maybe have one last chance at a, well, normal death i guess


but that "flayed child" is just the other peices of voldemorts fractured and damaged soul, and a representation of the everlasting pain he will be in in the afterlife




we do know the elder wand works, because harry uses it to repair his wand, when even hermione ( a very skilled witch) and the wand maker said it could not be done


This post was edited by Ice98 on Jul 29 2007 05:38pm

wow you are correct I was owned on that one way to go bro

Couldn't the flayed child be death itself? That was what i thought of while reading the book. Dumble says that you shouldn't pity death, but those alives or something..