well

I totaly approve

That's your opinion, what if all of us like reading stuff like that?

These books are definitaly good, theres no denying that a vast amount of people enjoy them, if you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything at all

i just read like book 11 or something cant member. been reading them for so many years now.
Whenever im not reading forgotten realms or other r.a. salvatore that is.

edit: deathknight1 stop watching sailor moon and your opinion might accually count.

This post was edited by huGe-UNIT on Jul 20 2007 05:42am

i liked the series but not even close to the best of its genre at least its a lil more orginal the alot of the science fiction clap trap out there aka harry potter. I think he foreshadows way way to much. You end up knowing whats gonna happen in book 4 in book 2 and dear god this series could easily been compressed from his planned 13 books to like 9-10 way to much repatition i did a count once when rereading the series when last book came out he mentions the same prophecy over 300 times in 10 books seriously we got it the 1st time but an average 30 times per book is outragous. And omg the 2-3 years in between books when he has the story line completed led to his being unable to finish series before his death (sadly i called this after book 5 that he wouldnt be able to complete series at the rate he was going). But best of genre must go to tolkien who created the genre with his amazing books and whos legacy will never be touched by Jordans series.

ill say that they are my favorite series in fantasy

The series started good. It was a nice, quaint little derivative yarn about the typical 'chosen one' farmboy exploring the world and coming into power. The characters were simplistic, but interesting. And he was highly readable and entertaining for about the first 4 books.

Than he lost control of the story. Instead of the enjoyable core characters, the cast was expanded to a literal cast of thousands. And most of them sucked. Literally hundreds of female characters, entirely redundant in names (seriosuly, could you figure out who was who?) and personalities. Each one bitchier, more powerful, more beautiful, more stubborn, and more annoying than the last. Jordan himself admitted that he couldn't write women. And that he based most of his female characters off his wife. Were he not dead, I'd make a crack about his wife. But that'd be in bad taste now.

Anyway, the villains. The Foresaken and dark one started off as this mysterious, sinister force capable of untold atrocities. Nightmare inducing shit. Now? They couldn't inspire fear in the heart of a 5 year old bedwetter. They sit around whining like High School cliques, their 'grand plans' usually amount to nothing, they're easily killed...another dying with relative ease about every other book, and they're so pathetic that they're even being recycled. There is absolutely NOTHING in the presentation of their characters to make me think they're competent enough to destroy cities or slaughter peoples like the stories about them suggest. Jordan told us...he did an awful job of showing us.

The heroes: When they are around, there's no suspense. The most overused plot device (Ta'avern) in fantasy literature will ensure that they'll find everything they need, meet everyone they should, and get out of all the most desperate situations relatively unscathed. They're also world-weary 20 somethings who continue to act like 12 year old adolescents afraid of girls. 'Mat knows everything about women'/'NO Rand does!' Give me a break. Everything in the book is treated in a childlike manner. These are some of the least mature character interactions I've seen in ANY writing. Harry Potter can have adults interact like adults...WoT simply can't manage that.

And this doesn't even touch on the most popular complaint. The fact that there's been no meaningful plot advancement for about 5+ books. We're talking thousands of pages with nothing relevant. Or if it was relevant (cleansing), it just popped out of thin air without adequate foundation, build up, or support.

Knife had some moments in the second half, but its just not enough. RJ down the stretch was largely unreadable.



He is NOT NEAR the best fantasy out there. Anyone who suggests that really hasn't read much fantasy. I don't hate RJ. He's had a largely positive impact on the fantasy genre...arguably the most important fantasy author since Tolkien. The popularity of WoT allowed alot of other, much better fantasy to be published. Who knows if Martin (who probably actually does write the best work in the fantasy genre today) would be where he is without RJ's blurb on his first novel? Who knows if authors like Erikson, Bakker, Lynch, and others would be able to sell multi-volume epic ideas to publishers without the trend RJ set? The genre definitely owes him a debt.

That said, fantasy is undergoing a bit of a renaissance. New, more talented authors are writing intelligent, compelling work. Adding a mature edge. Exploring relevant philosophical questions. Avoiding the cliches or turning them on their head. There is alot of great work out there...and it is getting published.

Don't listen to Kulith. He reads goodkind. Who is infinitely worse than RJ on his worst day.

You, sir, just signed your death sentence.

Jordan isn't worth liking the dirt off Goodkinds shoes.



- These are some of the least mature character interactions I've seen in ANY writing. Harry Potter can have adults interact like adults...WoT simply can't manage that.
- The fact that there's been no meaningful plot advancement for about 5+ books. We're talking thousands of pages with nothing relevant.
- They sit around whining like High School cliques, their 'grand plans' usually amount to nothing, they're easily killed...another dying with relative ease about every other book, and they're so pathetic that they're even being recycled
- Each woman bitchier, more powerful, more beautiful, more stubborn, and more annoying than the last.

EXACTLY!!

THats exactly what i said, except not so aggressive. But you're still giving Jordan way too much credit. He hasn't had the great impact your painting of him.... In fact, the popularity of the Waste of Time smuggled and quenched much better fantasy. Wot is in no way creative or compelling. He takes super popular ideas (like fucking talking to fucking wolves) and a million other things from tolkien and eddings (for starters) and other gods...and retards praise him for it. As I said, his first 3 had the potential to be the start of a great series, but wtf happened to them? your guess is as good as mine.

and Martins fourth book was a misery.... His first three where jammed packed full of juicy potential but his fourth book left you thinking: wtf?? I put it down ofter the 1000'th chapter of Brianna wandering around in the pointless side plot looking for stupid sansa because of the promise she gave to a dead woman. And when my absolutely least favorite character finally died (catelyn) martin brings her back to life.... wtf...pisses me off.

I'm one of the harshest critics of Martin's fourth book. From a storytelling perspective, much of it was awful. Brienne of course the biggest offender. Her chapters amounted to a 100+ page travelogue with ABSOLUTELY nothing relevant happening til literally her last page. Travelogues annoy the hell out of me and should be purged from all fantasy.

Martin struggled with the 4th book. You may or may not have heard about the split that necessitated the 5+ year delay between novels. He intended a 5 year gap between books 3 and 4 (storywise, not in real life...although ironically enough, things worked out the opposite). But there were too many details to fill in, background for that period to cover, and he realized that he spent most of the first half of the book telling what happened. So he trashed the 5 year gap. And had to come to a decision....write half a storyarc for all the characters, or a full arc for half the characters. He went for the second choice.

I have no problem with that choice. My only problem is that he did not deliver on his promise. None of the characters really had anything approaching a full storyarc. Most of them can be summed up with 'Nothing happened, nothing happened, nothing happened, 'CLIMAX!!!'. Sam took a trip. The book ends once he reaches the destination. Arya trains...and nothing else. The Ironborn talk about invasion...than start one, thats it. And so on and so forth. The only storyline with significant development that remained interesting throughout was Cersei's and the other ones centered on King's Landing.


That said, its still Martin. Even when he's off his game, he's more readable and enjoyable than 90% of the hacks in the genre. His themes and symbolism are strong throughout. Often times relating in a number of different ways to the title of the novel. He elicits powerful images of the aftermath of war without boring us to tears by spending too long on the struggles of random peasant A or B. From a writing perspective, he still has some of the strongest, most readable prose in the genre. Effective dialogue (some of which was lacking in the absense of Tyrion sadly) along with well drawn and intelligent characters.

And on Cat...i'm not sure what she has can really be called 'life'.

And of course...I'm still gonna give you shit for liking Goodkind.