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Dec 4 2007 11:01am
Quote (Psykotic @ Tue, Dec 4 2007, 04:39pm)
roger that

it just makes me laugh when people get upset over the "torture" in his books.


And it doesn't even have graphic rape scenes.
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Dec 4 2007 11:04am
he seems to be squeemish about depicting sex in his books...

the most graphic he got was with richard and denna...he didn't get into much btwn richard and Kahlan or much about the constant raping of the sisters
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Dec 4 2007 12:10pm
Quote
it just makes me laugh when people get upset over the "torture" in his books.


The only torture involved in Goodkind is the process of actually trying to read his crap. No, I am not put off by the S&M scenes. I could care less about who has to eat a nutsack or whose a closet masochist.

Goodkind has alot of problems. First, he's not a good writer. His prose is weak and borders on painful at times. His story has magical swords, wizards, dragons, great evil and greater good, riddled with more fantasy cliches than you can shake a stick at...yet he arrogantly asserts that he doesn't write fantasy. In fact he goes out of his way to shit on the genre. There are a few too many coincidences between his series and WoT to be mere coincidence, though he'd go into a mouth foaming rage if you mentioned that to him. He is a poor writer and storyteller. A moron and asshole of the highest order if you've ever heard/read an interview.

But all of this I can forgive. There are after all alot of bad writers out there, even some with delusions of adequacy that Goodkind seems to have. Its the fact that his books amount to little more than thinly veiled attempts to push his own political agenda that annoys the hell out of me. And of course the fact that he does it really poorly.

There's some things you must know when reading Goodkind. First, Richard is always right. Any action, no matter how atrocious or downright wrong, is always right when Richard or Kahlan does it. Any act of brutality justified, anything he says will come to pass, and the exact opposite applies to the villains. They are always wrong and evil incarnate simply because Richard/Terry says so, even if their actions are near identical to Richard and Kahlan's.

Second, just about every foe will be a strawman proxy for an opposing political ideology. They'll be blatantly obvious, incredibly simplistic and outright dumb in their explanation and portrayal of the philosophy. They'll do things like makes speeches about why fire is evil...and actually convince people of this absurd 'fact', and only someone with the 'moral clarity' of Richard will see through this 'clever' ruse. They'll be evil generally because Richard says they are, and in case you're not clubbed over the head hard enough with the rightness of objectivism and wrongness of everything else, Terry will probably have them rape and murder small children just to reinforce that point.

His stories are riddled with absurd speeches, lame strawmen, false dichotomies, and any other bit of shit rhetoric he can find to drive the point home that all other political philosophies are wrong. And in case you have any doubt, the ultimate Gary Stu Richard will usually tell you they're wrong. And of course we need no further proof than that. And if you still have doubts, have no fear...the story will inevitably work out in a fashion that proves Richard was right all along. No matter how contrived the resolution or how absurd the other characters acts and reactions, the outcome will reinforce Terry's ideology...logical progression and organic storytelling be damned.


An author's politics often will come through to some extent in ones work, sometimes consciously sometimes not. I generally don't have a problem with that. But if they're going to turn the novel into a vehicle for propaganda, I insist that the author adequately test their theories with strong, thorough, and well thought out representations of opposing ideals. Terry does not do this. In fact he dumbs down, purposely misstates, grossly overgeneralizes, and paints with the blackest brush available any philosophy he purposely disagrees with. Its the height of intellectual dishonesty. His name should pop up in any dictionary search of disingenuous. There is no ambiguity in Goodkind's world. Things are good because he says they are and evil for the same reasons. If they're not evil enough, he'll have them engage in all manner of immoral perversions just to drive the point home.

This post was edited by AchillesHK on Dec 4 2007 12:15pm
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Dec 4 2007 02:26pm
thanks for the honest reply

personally, i'm reading the series for the fun of reading it....political and philisophical points be damned

i do appreciate you participating in this "discussion"...afterall, that's what this is about
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Dec 5 2007 01:09pm
I enjoyed reading these books (read them all), can't see I felt bored when reading them, so I just can advice you to continue reading wink.gif
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Dec 5 2007 02:17pm
The Sword of Truth is one of the greatest sets of fantasy novels ever to be compiled. The depth, scope, and magnitude of his writing devours just about any other fantasy works out there (Save for Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" Series).

I'm waiting to read "Confessor" the final book that was just released this past month. I have read all preceding books twice now, and every hour I put into it, was well compensated. Goodkind does an amazing job of almost pissing the reader off to the point of not wanting to read anymore, (ei, the constant separation of Kahlan and Richard.) but that turns into an impossibility as the story already has you locked in.His character development is spectacular, none two are the same, each brings a very different edge to the plot and storyline.

Ahem, FUCK YOU, if you can't appreciate TSOT series.
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Dec 5 2007 02:37pm
Quote (Nitrix @ Wed, Dec 5 2007, 08:17pm)
The Sword of Truth is one of the greatest sets of fantasy novels ever to be compiled. The depth, scope, and magnitude of his writing devours just about any other fantasy works out there (Save for Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" Series).

I'm waiting to read "Confessor" the final book that was just released this past month. I have read all preceding books twice now, and every hour I put into it, was well compensated. Goodkind does an amazing job of almost pissing the reader off to the point of not wanting to read anymore, (ei, the constant separation of Kahlan and Richard.) but that turns into an impossibility as the story already has you locked in.His character development is spectacular, none two are the same, each brings a very different edge to the plot and storyline.

Ahem, FUCK YOU, if you can't appreciate TSOT series.


Depth and scope? You must be joking. Either that or you've not read anything else.
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Dec 7 2007 03:18am
I'm enjoying reading the series. Chainfire starts off with a twist.
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Dec 7 2007 06:53pm
Quote
The Sword of Truth is one of the greatest sets of fantasy novels ever to be compiled. The depth, scope, and magnitude of his writing devours just about any other fantasy works out there (Save for Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" Series).


I feel like my brain is gonna explode. If you want scope, nothing touches Erikson's Malazon series. If you want depth, go Martin or Bakker. What you mention really offers neither. (got 3 books into Dark Tower, so I can't comment on the full series...but I wasn't terribly impressed)

Quote

Goodkind does an amazing job of almost pissing the reader off to the point of not wanting to read anymore


On this we agree, but I suspect for different reasons. I get pissed because he downright insults the intelligence of the reader on too many occasions by setting up his flimsy, laughable strawmen and expecting us to swallow it.

Other things that might annoy?

Evil Chicken. Seriously.

Evil chick converted to good because of a sculpture. That's right. Not only did Richard become the lovechild of Michaelangelo and DaVinci on his part time (guy can do everything doncha know), but his works forces hardened evil bitches to their knees begging his acceptance.

Kahlan ALMOST getting raped about a dozen times (its actually 9. Yes, people have counted this shit) as a lame and redundant means of providing dramatic tension. Kahlan distracting a group of evil soldiers with her tits. (which were so glorious that none of the men took the fraction of a second to look at her face and figure out she was the enemy)

There is worse written shit out there. But this is pretty damned bad. And made even worse by the author's (and the fans') pretensions of quality and importance.
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Dec 8 2007 01:38pm
Ignore Achilles, SOT is the best series ive read in my life. Im not going to start another argument about it again though.
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