well depends on which lens you get with it...

D7000 is about 1 year newer than the 7D and thus is equally interesting. Supports everything the 7D supports and for a better price.
You will want a lens to go with the camera. SO lets say you pay 900-1000 that will leave space for
a 17-50 2.8 DC II Tamron or a 24mm 2.8 and a 50mm 1.8 or a 12-22/24 mm wideangle...

Only problem with some of these lenses is that . they (e.g. the tamron and the 12-22) wont work with a 5D mk X and any other full frame camera - thus. if you update the camera, you need to sell your lenses and get new ones.
thats equally to spending money for nothing.

So again.

I would rather go for a small cheap camera D650 and a few great lenses. e.g. a ultra wide 17-40 and a 85 1.8 for the start.
On nikon SIde a D3200 or 5200 and a 16-35 4.0 VR + 85 1.8

Since you want to experiment, do action shots and long exposures. you will want a rather long lens and sth ultra wide...

Anyway. You decide.
There is lots of options and there is NO best solution.
it really depends where you wanna go.

Also, repeating myself here. You wanna experiment, experiment with different lenses. The camera will not change much, all cameras have excellent image quality and video function and support whatever you wanna do.
Learn how to use it, learn to improve these shots with post processing,
- than get a bigger one if you know what you want. Start small. Get Lenses, know what you wanna shoot, know what your camera needs: Speed or better Iso Capabilities, then upgrade to a 7D or a 5D mark II / III or a d700 / d800. You will hopefully know by than what the difference is between a full frame and a crop sized sensor >_< and what the advantages and disadvantages are.

final word: if a 7D is what you want ( you pointed that out form the start) get it. it`s an awesome camera. but it is only as good as its user and to point it out the lenses.
shit lens = shit quality.
Every Camera will do good pictures in automatic mode, and every camera will have equal image quality if used right in the right cicumstances. Buying the best camera will not do the best images.

This post was edited by Phil. on Jul 23 2012 07:46pm

Well are full frames good for what I'm wanting to do?

I can wait and save up for a better camera.
I just wanna get one that is gonna last for a long time and not need to be replaced.

That is why I am asking here.

I do not understand much about cameras right now but that shouldn't stop me from getting a very nice one.

I just need outside help/opinions on what to look for and what to get





edit
I see that the d700 is full frame and has lower noise when messing with the iso speeds

but it does not shoot video?

This post was edited by Endure on Jul 24 2012 06:51am

the d700 is a great camera and has good fps but as u said no hd video
5d2 is awesome (its what i shoot)
the 5d3 and the d800 are absolutely amazing
imo the best camera for your needs is either the 7d or the d7000 - test them out and see what suits you best

hmmm

Okay well lets categorize:

Canon Table:

• 1D Series
  Professional Cameras with a price-tag on new bodies over 4000$
  - Full Frame ( or 1.3 Crop sensor, depending on model)-> Better Iso performance
  - Depending on Model High Frame Rates
  - Big Body with weather sealing and advanced customizable features
  - Video
  - Overall top model.
  
• 5D Series
  Professional Camera with a price tag on new bodies over 1000$-3000$ (starting with 5D mark I, II or III)
  - Full Frame
  - Rather than focusing on speed, they focus on Video, Good noice performance and excellent image quality
  - smaller body than 1D series, less features, slower, but equal in quality
  - Full frame makes lenses 1:1 ( e.g. a 50mm on a crop camera really is 50 * 1.6 = about 75 and 200mm = 3XX mm) => makes it more useful for architecture and landscape and studio photography
  
• 7D
  Advanced Camera with price tag on new body at around 1000$
  - Focus on Speed
  - Focus on Video
  - Crop Sensor ( therefore you can put a 70-200 on it and it extends to 100-3XXmm lens)
  - Focus on video
  - smaller sensor => more noise! not as good quality as full frame
  
• XX Series
  Prosumer Camera for advanced users with price tag on new body at around 800$ (40D,50D,60D)
  - the 60D is to the 7D what the 5D is to the 1D series.
  => smaller, less features, other outo focus, small sensor (same size as 7D, quite equal)
  
• XXX Series
  Amature Camera for beginners with price tag on new body at around 600$ (650D, 600D, 550D)
  => even smaller than the 60D but quite equal in terms of image quality, slower (less fps), not as good out focus
  worse weather sealing...
  
• 1XXX Series
  Beginner Camera for beginners and starters (price tag is i think at around 400$)
  - small, not so many features, image quality compareably to 600D

Nikon Table:

• 3D / 4D at around 5000$
  Pro Bodies, with Speed, awesome iso performance and weatherseling and video compareble to the 1D series
  Everything you wish is in there....
  
• D700 / D800 at 1500$-3400$
  D700 has no video therefore probably not interesting.
  D800 has more megapixel than the 4D but is significantly slower but has same low light performance and everything the 4D has in a smaller slower body.
  
• D90 / D7000 500-$850$
  - Is a d800 in smaller, with the only difference being it has a crop sensor (iso performance :S) and less features and other auto focus...
  - d90 has no video. probably not interesting for you.
  
• D5200 / D 3200
  - agian.. smaller but equal to the 7D since they are newer in terms of image quality. still smaller other autofocus.

And again lets put it that way.

Lenses will last as long as you own any camera. Therefore you will probably never have to replace them ever again if you get good ones.
Camera technology WILL change every year. You can either live with what you buy or get a new model now and than.
Therefore, i would Suggest:

a) get a small camera such as D650 or D5200 for now, you can sell it in a few months when you know if you want the Quality of a 5D Mark II or III or D800
-> You need to know if you rather want the Iso performance or the Speed, or you get a 1D / D4 ._.
get GOOD GLASS!
- 14-24 2.8
- 16-35 2.8
- 24-70 2.8
- 70-200 2.8
- 24 1.4
- 35 1.4
- 50 1.2 / 1.4
- 85 1.2 / 1.4 VR
- 130mm 2.0

Go to a store, grap a D650 and a D5200, if it feels to small, get a D7000 or 60D.
There will probably be an update to the 7D very soon anyway and we are all desperatly waiting for a replacement of a D300s on nikon side which should be better than the 7D as well.

There is no rush getting a good camera since ,as you said, you cant control it anyway. better get glass.

ok so the 5D seems to be pretty fitting for me seeing as I want to do a lot of time lapse stuff as well as shooting landscape.
Also, I would like to shoot a lot at night, of lights and cities as well.

I'm really not into shooting people or stuff like that.
Bright vivid colors and full frames right?


xD

I need to find a website to read about this info


/edit
but for action stuff the 7D would be better so maybe start with the 7D and move up to a full frame?


or should I strike lower and get myself a better than normal lens to start?

This post was edited by Endure on Jul 24 2012 08:24am

its always best to invest more in lenses
so you gonna save a bit more and up your budget? could give better advice if you give us a firm budget

My budget can be as high as about 3,000 USD


but whatever I get, it must be ready to shoot.

get a 5D mark II, new or used + 24-70 2.8 or 24-105 4.0
For Video, best Image Quality for that price range.

downside: not as good autofocus as 7D and 5D mark III, D800, D7000.
Still, it´s probably the best and most versatile setup you can get for 3000$.

If you dont like buying an "old" model get Nikon D7000 or Canon 60D (if you have the money, get a 7D....)
Lenses:
Canon: 17-40 4.0 + 70-200 4.0 (the new 24-70 will cost you about 2000$... so , maybe work around it with these two great lenses)
Nikon: 24-70 2.8 (you will later buy a 70-200 2.8 or 14-24, depending on what you need)


and upgrade the body to a D4 / D3 / D800 / 5D mark III later.

Edit:
plan on spending 100-200$ for extra battery and CF / SD cards... and maybe a (messenger) mag... crumpler or of your choice

This post was edited by Phil. on Jul 24 2012 09:33am

60D looks pretty nice, I think its what my cousin owns.


I still like the 7D better

Will be checking out those other cameras in a few


yeah I planned on setting aside money for that


Only thing is I want a camera relatively soon just to start shooting and they have 7Ds brand new with a lens already for like 1800


I know ill have to replace the lens but at least I could start shooting immediately and find out what I really want from a camera.


This post was edited by Endure on Jul 24 2012 09:39am

that in bold sums it up perfectly



if the 7d kit is with the 24-105 f4 then get it, you wont be dissapointed, yeah you will want better lenses and a body later on, but that will never end - there are so many lenses on my wishlist
no1 i know started with such a good kit