ahhh i think you`re wrong here, F4 vs F 2.8 is one stop. Since both (D650 / D5100 or D7000 / 60D) are also having CROP Sized sensors the quality is pretty equal. 1 Stop in terms of ISO is quite a bit. (6400 / 3200 can mean anything in terms of noise)
In terms of flexebility that might be true, but an upgrade in mind the 24-70 is surely the right choice.... anyway, there are quite a few other options too.... speaking of fixed lenses...

anyway... we should hear about his budget first xD
i am sure we can plan out something for 10.000 easily


edit: i love fixed lenses,
I use D800E and 14-24 2.8 + 50 1.4 + 85 1.8

This post was edited by Phil. on Jul 23 2012 03:23am

but that is what i mean you can easily use and get away with 6400iso and f4 on a 7d, but 3200iso and f2.8 on entry lvl will give worse results obv dont class the d7000 as entry lvl - that is an amazing camera and imo one of the best value for money cameras avail

when i was shooting nikon i used the 14-24 quite alot, its an amazing lens - will get the 17-40 soon as i dont require the extra stop for my wide angle
another great lens from nikon is the 200-400 f4 (canon have not released the 200-400 f4 with 1.4extender yet afaik but then again that would be WAY outta my price range)
fixed lenses are great but for what i shoot and ease of use i stick to zooms, although waiting to get the 300mm

@but that is what i mean you can easily use and get away with 6400iso and f4 on a 7d...

i wann see that test...

since 60D / 650D / D7000 / D3200 / 5200D are newer than 7D they have newer sensors which can archive more or at least the same iso / noise handling!

check:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Database
and :
www.dpreview.com
for samples please...

these tests are just examples... in real shots results may vary a little but a difference of 300-400 iso states that the results in facet are different...and in terms of iso a 650D and a D5200 in fact beat the 7D which is "an old model" compared to the other two cameras...

This post was edited by Phil. on Jul 23 2012 05:06am

my personal experience the 7d is better at high iso than the 60d - and even shows that in the link BUT that is still only the techincal data so to speak not actually using the camera
yeah the d7000 is amazing and as i said the best bang for buck, best in its class imo, awesome iso and great af, feels great as well
have not tried the d3200/5200, did not like the d3000-5100 - the old d90 was way superior - i really want to test the d3200 coz imo with all those pixels crammed into that little sensor it will inevitably create more noise in lower light, but then again technology is amazing - prob the best marketing move by nikon

i am liking this discussion
how would u rate cameras?
as in what would u reccomend at certain lvl/price range?
mine looks something like this:
d90
d7000 / 7d
5d2
5d3 / 1dx for certain applications

Imho.

7D has an really awesome Autofocus which would be the reason to choose the 7D over the 60D and 650D (Canon Side)
Compare the 7D to nikon the Autofocus of the D7000 probably matches that of the 7D and is cheaper with quite the same Image Quality and handling.

We need to be sure here, 7D and D7000 by far have more options / dials and have a huge advantage agains their smaller companions which only have the back lcd. and feel really tiny (at least in my hands)

Instead of d90 which is also a really bargain for its cost with high value i would still consider D5200 and D3200 since these models are just way newer (2 generations) speaking of image quality and video and such.
I have no expirience with the 650D / 1000D but i guess they can compete with the D5200 / 3200. in The End if you are a first time buyer you decide for a system and the feel of the camera needs to be right.
If he has no lenses i would defnitly go for an entry level / more advanced entry lvl body and 2 lenses (if he has the money).

5D Mark II / D700 / Mark III D800:
Doesnt matter, they are all amazing. >_< and there are lots of reviews out there stating the same.
Only thing to decide: 5D mark II for More video ( 1080p, great colors, handling ) and d700 for Action Sports and Stills. (auto focus / fps / iq)

So anyone have a for sure opinion on what I should get for my price range

I don't need a lot of lenses at first I just wanna shoot and manipulate photos on my own for now with photoshop and stuff ofc


so?

sure! whats your price range again?? 1000,2000,3000,4000,5000,6000,7000.....?
have you had a canon / nikon in your hands? D7000 and 7D did you compare these??
what handling do you prefere? Handling and feel is essential when buying a camera.
Do you plan on upgrading to full frame later? or is APS-C sensor fine?

I would like to be around 1,000 bucks starting off but I want something that is amazing quality

I will be shooting exactly what I said in the first post, and thats all I want to do.

I will be doing a lot of like natural life and landscape shooting and like, long videos of scenery changing and speeding the video up

crap like that.


I just know the 7D is pretty good for like 1,799 with a lens.


I will be upgrading in about 1 1/2 years and I don't care how the camera feels


This post was edited by Endure on Jul 23 2012 03:31pm

so you wanna spend 1000 in total? or 1800?

._.

1000 is not much... if you want awesome, you need awesome money... xD

anyway:

7D (1050$) ++
D7000 (900$) ++
+ relativly good lens ( 800 ++ $ )
=> 1600 ++ $

small camera (500$) + (shit) lens => 1000$

This post was edited by Phil. on Jul 23 2012 04:20pm

Well places here have 7Ds with a lens for like 1700 bucks so is that my best bet for what I want to do?