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d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > Graphic Design > Photography > Speedlight 430ex Ii Vs 580ex Ii > Or Do I Really Need A Flash?
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Mar 3 2009 02:53pm
Well I just got another paycheck so of course I want to spend it on something nice and I have been looking at a flash for my camera for some time but to be honest I am not even sure if I need one because I take outdoor pictures most of the time and those time I actually do take indoor pictures it would be mostly close ups which I am not sure a powerful extern flash would be an "overkill" and then if I do decide to get a flash I am not sure which one I should get. I have played around with the 430EX II in the past and really liked it. It seems to be very powerful and the price is quite reasonable but I have also seen a few comments in another photography forum that for my 40D the 580EX II would be a better choice. So I am kinda lost here lol. Any kind of serious advice and suggestion would be very appreciated wink.gif.

EDIT: Oh I forgot to say that there is like 200 dollars difference between those two flashes so I am also wonder if it is really worth paying two hundred bucks more for the 580 II.

I just kinda want to get something brighter than a simple LED keylight for pictures like this:



This post was edited by Futurama on Mar 3 2009 02:58pm
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Mar 3 2009 03:06pm
Imo it's useful for occasions like Graduation, Wedding, Inside activities, if you;'re not doing any of the kind, then I don't think you'll need it.
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Mar 3 2009 03:23pm
Quote (chantal7 @ Tue, Mar 3 2009, 03:06pm)
Imo it's useful for occasions like Graduation, Wedding, Inside activities, if you;'re not doing any of the kind, then I don't think you'll need it.


Well I don't know if I am going to be at any of those in the future but I have friends who have asked me to take pictures of them. I have heard that using a bouncer for an external flash would provide a much softer light rather than the very bright and unnatural looking light when pointing directly at the subject. I found this article earlier, maybe you'll find it useful as well.


Quote
Professional studio photographers rarely use direct flash to illuminate a subject, because the results are harsh, unnatural and unattractive. Most cameras designed for amateurs have a built-in flash which blasts light directly at the subject, creating the same kind of "deer in the headlights" effect. Fortunately, the addition of an inexpensive flash unit for bouncing flash can reduce this harshness and give your pictures a professional look. Another solution is a device called Professor Kobre's Lightscoop, which allows the pop up flash on some 35mm SLR cameras to be bounced -- an inexpensive and lightweight alternative to buying another piece of electronic equipment and learning to use it.

  1. Make sure your camera has either a hot-shoe for an external flash, or a socket for plugging one in. Most cameras have at least one of the two.
  2. Invest in an external flash unit with a 90 degree swivel (bounce) head. All major camera makers sell reasonably-priced units with this feature. Some models also rotate, adding even more functionality.
  3. When taking a flash picture indoors, turn off the camera's built-in flash. Point the bounce flash head at the ceiling (rather than at the subject) and take the picture. This will provide a soft, diffused light and it will cut down on red-eye.
  4. For even better results, buy a cable which connects your camera to the flash unit. You can then remove the flash from the camera and bounce the light off walls, a reflector, or whatever you want.
  5. While Professor Kobre's Lightscoop is not advertised to replace external flash units, some photographers may be interested in its low-tech but effective approach to bouncing the built-in flash itself. To bounce the built-in flash with the Lightscoop (no external flash necessary):
  6. - Slide the Lightscoop onto the camera's hot shoe.
  7. - Set the camera to work in Manual mode.
  8. - Set the camera's exposure mode to Spot meter.
  9. - Set the ISO to 800.
  10. - Set the shutter speed to 1/200.
  11. - Set the aperture to the lens's maximum.
  12. As is the case when bouncing an external flash (see "Warnings"), the Lightscoop works best with light-colored ceilings approximately 8-10 feet tall or walls (when camera is in vertical orientation). It will NOT work in rooms with cathedral ceilings, paneled wood ceilings, in gymnasiums or churches, or in places like nightclubs with dark ceilings. When ceilings are too high or too dark, not enough light can bounce back to reach the scene below.


http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Bounce-Flash-to-Improve-Your-Photography
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Mar 3 2009 04:35pm
I would go for the 430 EX. If you ever start working with multiple flashes, you can just make it the slave to the 580 you'd presumably be getting. The 580 would be way overkill for what you'd need it for. The main difference is the higher guide number, a maximum that you won't be using 99% of the time. I think its weatherproofed as well but since the 40D isn't, there isn't much of a point. The cost isn't worth it for the average photographer. $200 better spent on glass.

I have a 430 right now and it makes flash pictures much better if used correctly [bounced/diffused/etc]. I have a Stofen for normal use and a Lumiquest Softbox for macro usages.

Just to let you know, in the situation you have showed in the image, the flash won't help at all. You'll have the flash reflecting back at you off the LCD screen and that would be even less pleasant. A better choice would be diffusing a strong flashlight while setting the brightness of the LCD screen down to a minimum. That way, the two "scenes" in the image are far closer together in terms of exposure.
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Mar 3 2009 05:28pm
get the 430 since you are starting, it's plenty good.
I have a 580EXII as my main flash but I do pretty heavy flash work.
For occasional the 430EX is much better bang for buck.
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Mar 3 2009 06:00pm
Quote (Astragony @ Tue, Mar 3 2009, 05:28pm)
get the 430 since you are starting, it's plenty good.
I have a 580EXII as my main flash but I do pretty heavy flash work.
For occasional the 430EX is much better bang for buck.


Quote (FlayrFlak @ Tue, Mar 3 2009, 04:35pm)
I would go for the 430 EX.  If you ever start working with multiple flashes, you can just make it the slave to the 580 you'd presumably be getting.  The 580 would be way overkill for what you'd need it for. The main difference is the higher guide number, a maximum that you won't be using 99% of the time.  I think its weatherproofed as well but since the 40D isn't, there isn't much of a point.  The cost isn't worth it for the average photographer.  $200 better spent on glass.

I have a 430 right now and it makes flash pictures much better if used correctly [bounced/diffused/etc].  I have a Stofen for normal use and a Lumiquest Softbox for macro usages.

Just to let you know, in the situation you have showed in the image, the flash won't help at all.  You'll have the flash reflecting back at you off the LCD screen and that would be even less pleasant.  A better choice would be diffusing a strong flashlight while setting the brightness of the LCD screen down to a minimum.  That way, the two "scenes" in the image are far closer together in terms of exposure.


Yeah I guess you are both right lol. I probably won't be using flash whole a lot and will definitely have to learn how to use bounce flash so the object would get a more natural color. IF I will ever try studio photography I'll do as you guys suggest, buy the 580 and use 430 as a slave unit but I doubt that I will get that far lol. I don't think I will take any outdoor pictures using the flash when it's raining lol I think a faster lens and higher ISO speed would be much better for that so weather sealing is not needed.

As for the picture I posted above I think a LED flash light would be a better choice than a flash or maybe pointing the flash 90% upwards may would work too biggrin.gif. Well I'll probably go and buy the flash in the next couple of days biggrin.gif and will definitely post some test shots smile.gif.

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Mar 3 2009 06:41pm
at one time i had 2 430ex's and a 580II it was nice that the 580 had the slave trigger built in. and you can buy a 430 later and use as a fill in or background w/e they both work well though.. imo as far as primary i think the 580 is overpriced but the recycle time is fast if you dont have money to blow you will still be happy with the 430

This post was edited by jmw3407 on Mar 3 2009 06:42pm
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Mar 3 2009 09:24pm
Quote (jmw3407 @ Tue, Mar 3 2009, 06:41pm)
at one time i had 2  430ex's and  a 580II  it was nice that the 580 had the slave trigger built in. and you can buy a 430 later and use as a fill in or background w/e  they both work well though.. imo as far as primary i think the 580 is overpriced but the recycle time is fast if you dont have money to blow you will still be happy with the 430


Well I actually found a review on 430 EX II on Dpreview and it seems it's a improved version of the "regular" 430EX with faster recycle time. Well not that I need a flash with fast recycle time (if it's the time the flash need to power up for the next uh flash) course I am not going to take any action shots with it anyway lol. I was kinda debating on whether to get a flash first or the EF 50mm f/1.4 prime and I decided to get the flash because I am probably going to take a lot of indoor pictures until it gets warmer which probably won't happen until around late April here in Canada -.- course I remember it was snowing here in mid-April a few years ago sleep.gif


Review:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0806/08061001canon430iiex.asp

This post was edited by Futurama on Mar 3 2009 09:24pm
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Mar 3 2009 09:30pm
For what you'll be using it for, I'd suggest the 430EX
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Mar 3 2009 09:51pm
Quote (chantal7 @ Tue, Mar 3 2009, 09:30pm)
For what you'll be using it for, I'd suggest the 430EX


Yeah. I have pretty much decided to go with the 430EX smile.gif. I am not sure yet if I will be invited to some of my friends graduations later this year but it's always good to have an external flash in case I will need it for some big events one day lol and also I want to learn how to take good indoor pictures as well.

There are so many accessories I want to buy even though I know it may will take awhile. The next thing I am going to buy for my camera is that Sigma lens of yours and then later on sell my current lens and buy the EF 16-35 f/2.8L lens which cost a fortune -.-

This post was edited by Futurama on Mar 3 2009 09:51pm
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