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Mar 8 2016 09:36pm
Quote (Perseverance1 @ Mar 8 2016 08:15pm)
I just got an account from rank 22 to rank 10 with 27-4 record. elo hell doesn't exist


Oh yes it does. I got to rank 8 so easily. The climb to 5 has been stupid. I review my games and it's not me..
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Mar 8 2016 10:06pm
Quote (Eternal_Amaranth @ Mar 8 2016 08:36pm)
Oh yes it does. I got to rank 8 so easily. The climb to 5 has been stupid. I review my games and it's not me..


The bolded is where your logic became flawed.

Sure, maybe you did alright those games...Hell, MAYBE you carried HARD....but the bottom line is regardless of how well you did...if a higher MMR player were to play on your account...they would be able to increase X ranks.

Sometimes it's not even the stats or anything that matter...it's the little things like did you stop a turn-in at a pivotal point in the game level-wise to keep them from evening up in levels as you...or did you catch them at boss...or did you land that one last skillshot to kill the person holding 47 gems before he got away etc.

If elo hell existed then mmr/rank boosting websites wouldn't exist. But they do....so it doesn't.
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Mar 8 2016 10:47pm
Quote (Perseverance1 @ Mar 8 2016 11:06pm)
The bolded is where your logic became flawed.

Sure, maybe you did alright those games...Hell, MAYBE you carried HARD....but the bottom line is regardless of how well you did...if a higher MMR player were to play on your account...they would be able to increase X ranks.

Sometimes it's not even the stats or anything that matter...it's the little things like did you stop a turn-in at a pivotal point in the game level-wise to keep them from evening up in levels as you...or did you catch them at boss...or did you land that one last skillshot to kill the person holding 47 gems before he got away etc.

If elo hell existed then mmr/rank boosting websites wouldn't exist. But they do....so it doesn't.


I agree that players of a higher quality will have an easier time pushing to rank 1 than most. That much is true. And two people starting on the same fresh accounts, one a 2000 MMR player and one a 3500 MMR player will have vastly different rank levels by the end of the month. 100% true.

My only issue, and it's been the same issue I've mentioned (and you have mentioned) many times in the past. It is the variance of quality at any and all given ranks/MMRs.


You have 2700 MMR players who should wear a helmet if they leave their home, and 2600 MMR players who make you feel like high-fiving your PC for being paired with them. You have 3100 MMR players who ignore objectives/team pings, and you have 2200 MMR players who participate in winning team fights.


I will agree that guys who are 3500+ MMR, in the higher tier of skill pool, are always going to be good players. No doubt. I have played against a few, it is noticable. But the things that confuse me are still always going to be around... That guy who is 2710 MMR rank 1 (played against one today), who has <60 HL games played and a worse Win/Loss record than you, 30 lower MMR, and somehow is 6 ranks up on your account because he hit the jackpot in his placement games and got 300 points per win @ rank 3. Yes, eventually they will hopefully balance out... but those are the kind of things about the system I don't understand.

I don't think anyone is questioning that you're good at the game, or that 3500 MMR players are good at the game.

The frustration comes from the fact that you spend the first 100+ HL games on your account with a 60-65% win ratio, then suddenly drop 20 of 25 games and plummit in rank. So either the first 100 games were a complete fluke, your KDA is somehow inflated, you suddenly began smashing your skull with a hammer before matches and throwing games.... or there is something weird in the matchmaking that likes to readjust people who are in that 2200-2800 MMR area.

I mean I don't think it's a coincidence that my main got to rank 2 then dropped 14 ranks in a week, and now my smurf gets 30 points from rank 1 and drops to rank 7 in 2 days. There is a chance that I'm complete garbage at the game, and that's fair. I am human. I have off games. There are times where I am in the middle of the game, die and just put my head in my hands because I know I am blowing it for my team. But those times are not as frequent as my record (lately) would have you believe, and the teams I am placed on for those losing streaks are noticably worse and the losses are noticably more painful. I'm talking about 40-5 blow outs all day every day for weeks at a time. I mean if I was able to climb on both accounts from being placed at rank 20+ up to rank 1, why do I suddenly fall off the face of the earth. I'm losing to the same people I was just climbing over. Why not hit the brick wall @ rank 5, or rank 8, or rank 10 if I'm eventually going to drop to there after almost reaching rank 1. Why do I win 68% of my games between rank 10 and rank 2 against rank 1-10 players just to lose 80% of my games on my way back down.

It's just weird is all. And annoying :P

tl;dr - I'm garbage at this game and I'm the one who lets my team down when I go on 20 game losing streaks. I'm the one who forces people to AFK the first 90 seconds of Blackhearts Bay. I'm the one who forces people to pick Gazlowe instead of a tank. I am the devil!

This post was edited by TheDutchMan1443 on Mar 8 2016 11:01pm
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Mar 8 2016 11:21pm
Quote (TheDutchMan1443 @ Mar 8 2016 09:47pm)
I agree that players of a higher quality will have an easier time pushing to rank 1 than most. That much is true. And two people starting on the same fresh accounts, one a 2000 MMR player and one a 3500 MMR player will have vastly different rank levels by the end of the month. 100% true.

My only issue, and it's been the same issue I've mentioned (and you have mentioned) many times in the past. It is the variance of quality at any and all given ranks/MMRs.


You have 2700 MMR players who should wear a helmet if they leave their home, and 2600 MMR players who make you feel like high-fiving your PC for being paired with them. You have 3100 MMR players who ignore objectives/team pings, and you have 2200 MMR players who participate in winning team fights.


I will agree that guys who are 3500+ MMR, in the higher tier of skill pool, are always going to be good players. No doubt. I have played against a few, it is noticable. But the things that confuse me are still always going to be around... That guy who is 2710 MMR rank 1 (played against one today), who has <60 HL games played and a worse Win/Loss record than you, 30 lower MMR, and somehow is 6 ranks up on your account because he hit the jackpot in his placement games and got 300 points per win @ rank 3. Yes, eventually they will hopefully balance out... but those are the kind of things about the system I don't understand.

I don't think anyone is questioning that you're good at the game, or that 3500 MMR players are good at the game.

The frustration comes from the fact that you spend the first 100+ HL games on your account with a 60-65% win ratio, then suddenly drop 20 of 25 games and plummit in rank. So either the first 100 games were a complete fluke, your KDA is somehow inflated, you suddenly began smashing your skull with a hammer before matches and throwing games.... or there is something weird in the matchmaking that likes to readjust people who are in that 2200-2800 MMR area.

I mean I don't think it's a coincidence that my main got to rank 2 then dropped 14 ranks in a week, and now my smurf gets 30 points from rank 1 and drops to rank 7 in 2 days. There is a chance that I'm complete garbage at the game, and that's fair. I am human. I have off games. There are times where I am in the middle of the game, die and just put my head in my hands because I know I am blowing it for my team. But those times are not as frequent as my record (lately) would have you believe, and the teams I am placed on for those losing streaks are noticably worse and the losses are noticably more painful. I'm talking about 40-5 blow outs all day every day for weeks at a time. I mean if I was able to climb on both accounts from being placed at rank 20+ up to rank 1, why do I suddenly fall off the face of the earth. I'm losing to the same people I was just climbing over. Why not hit the brick wall @ rank 5, or rank 8, or rank 10 if I'm eventually going to drop to there after almost reaching rank 1. Why do I win 68% of my games between rank 10 and rank 2 against rank 1-10 players just to lose 80% of my games on my way back down.

It's just weird is all. And annoying :P

tl;dr - I'm garbage at this game and I'm the one who lets my team down when I go on 20 game losing streaks. I'm the one who forces people to AFK the first 90 seconds of Blackhearts Bay. I'm the one who forces people to pick Gazlowe instead of a tank. I am the devil!


I think the issue with your first point with regards to 2700 mmr needing helmet and 2200 mmr being good or w/e is that not everyone uses hotslogs and in the noob mmr ranges that can have a pretty big effect. In fact, I would say that any player who spent a large amount of time in the shitter ranks also will have messed up mmr.


In addition to this, when I went 27-4 on that noob account and got it from rank 22 to rank 10............despite the fact that it had 300+ HL games played on it already....I got bonus points for 5-6 of those wins (it was like every 2 wins after I went 14-0)...what this means is that blizzards mmr is jumping a lot higher from your win streak (much like in hearthstone with the win streaks) whereas on hotdogs there isn't a mechanism that accounts for this.
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Mar 8 2016 11:27pm
Quote (Perseverance1 @ Mar 9 2016 12:21am)
I think the issue with your first point with regards to 2700 mmr needing helmet and 2200 mmr being good or w/e is that not everyone uses hotslogs and in the noob mmr ranges that can have a pretty big effect. In fact, I would say that any player who spent a large amount of time in the shitter ranks also will have messed up mmr.


In addition to this, when I went 27-4 on that noob account and got it from rank 22 to rank 10............despite the fact that it had 300+ HL games played on it already....I got bonus points for 5-6 of those wins (it was like every 2 wins after I went 14-0)...what this means is that blizzards mmr is jumping a lot higher from your win streak (much like in hearthstone with the win streaks) whereas on hotdogs there isn't a mechanism that accounts for this.


Right on that makes sense


Still confusing, tho in some aspects. Going from good win rate to basically losing almost 30 straight games on my main and now smurf is like 3-15 over last 2 nights.

I went and played some QM after the losses today to try to just have fun with the game and bully.noobs with zera. It was fun. HL has been bumming me out these last few days.

I could understand an off game or two but when you have several games in a row of 5th picks choosing insanely bad heroes, or at one point today i had 3 games in a row with 7-10 total HL games placement game teammates vs ranked teams.

Just shitty feeling :p

I think it is more frustrating this way than if i was just suddenly awful and at least then I would know im the reason for the streaks.

I dont think im a great player. But i think i am good enough that tanking from rank 2-16 in a week was a shock and it happening again hurts my pride :p

This post was edited by TheDutchMan1443 on Mar 8 2016 11:28pm
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Mar 9 2016 02:07am
Quote (TheDutchMan1443 @ Mar 8 2016 10:27pm)
Right on that makes sense


Still confusing, tho in some aspects. Going from good win rate to basically losing almost 30 straight games on my main and now smurf is like 3-15 over last 2 nights.

I went and played some QM after the losses today to try to just have fun with the game and bully.noobs with zera. It was fun. HL has been bumming me out these last few days.

I could understand an off game or two but when you have several games in a row of 5th picks choosing insanely bad heroes, or at one point today i had 3 games in a row with 7-10 total HL games placement game teammates vs ranked teams.

Just shitty feeling :p

I think it is more frustrating this way than if i was just suddenly awful and at least then I would know im the reason for the streaks.

I dont think im a great player. But i think i am good enough that tanking from rank 2-16 in a week was a shock and it happening again hurts my pride :p


I know that my brother is rank 10 and bounces from 5-15 but no matter what he swears to god that he's rank 1 material.

I also know that he's complete ass-dumpster-noob-retard-downsyndrome and literally every game I play with him I pick out 10 different reasons on why hes too shit to be rank 1.

Honestly if you really wanna improve post some replays on reddit and see if you can get a 3700 mmr+ player to analyze them for you (not seiqooq or daneski they are both noobs). Chances are they will find lots of stuff you fucked up on and at the very least you might feel better about your potato rank afterwards lol.
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Mar 9 2016 10:36am
That medic last night though....LOL
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Mar 9 2016 11:12am
Quote (WesWelker @ Mar 9 2016 11:36am)
That medic last night though....LOL


Lol medivac alone into a 1v5 on the other teams boss when tribute is spawning on opposite lane and our team was down a tank.

Glorious throw. Was spectacular lol

I wanna go into that replay tonight and make a gif of it. Name it "holdmybeer.gif"

This post was edited by TheDutchMan1443 on Mar 9 2016 11:14am
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Mar 9 2016 04:01pm
Yeah maybe I should post a replay to reddit, hell maybe I just don't see fault in my plays.

I think my weakest skill is making calls. Only call I know is "omg 5 kill go core"

" no skip boss go core "

" WTF GO CORE " *ping spam*
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Mar 9 2016 07:10pm
Do you actually do boosting services?
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