SO.. since it's apparently illegal to make a thread expressing an idea.. (old thread here) simply because the moderation team doesn't like it / d2 is a dying game, they are unwilling to shut down the trade of unperm items on this site because they believe it will hasten the complete collapse of the economy and the death of the game. This thread is not to suggest that unperm items be restricted from this site, this thread is to suggest that any idea be given a fair chance and not summarily closed as long as it's not total gibberish (changing every icon to a tiny elephant for example).

Now, I was told UaPs were dealt with as they come up. That "The scammer accusaton team works very hard to ensure that they do the best job that they can to catch the bad guys. We can handle the UAP sellers from that perspective." meaning nothing is done until after you get scammed. most of the time resulting in the scammed person quitting. resulting in the scammer (hopefully) being locked, but then he just makes a multi. My suggestion was to remove the temptation, to add a rule that unperm garbage not be allowed to be sold here. I believe that this would reduce the amount of UaPs we see, as it would prevent said unperms from being easily attainable. 16:7, you agree with me. This thread is about allowing this idea to be heard and not snubbed.

Current site policy is to close a suggestion thread in which the suggestion "has no chance to be implemented".. so if its a good idea, what the hell do you do to get it to be recognized as feasible? It's a good idea, 16:7 of you agree, but I can't submit it because Paul doesn't want to risk damaging his d2 economy? Allowing unperm sales is the damage to the economy that should be prevented. Silencing the voice of reason is the damage to the site that causes members to leave.
Paul. The fruit of this thing could come out bitter, or it could come out sweet. But you'll never know if you pluck up the sapling and throw it away.
I suggest that ideas not be closed simply because those in power don't agree. I propose they be heard and voted on by all.
I propose democracy, not a republic or a despotism.

Excerpt from old thread:
"Suggestion: restrict the sale of unperm items in the diablo 2 forums (or anywhere on the site for that matter)
a wonderful way to throw a wrench into the cogs of the unperm as perm sellers. makes it much more difficult for johnny-random or whoever to get their hands on an unperm item to sell as perm.
Allowing the sale of unperm stuff only encourages UaP anyway from my PoV, hence threads selling unperm items should be closed and the user suspended / warned with a small amount of leeway for offenders (somewhere in the realm of posting images with sexual content / third party programs)
Sole exception possibly being jewels, but even those are iffy.
Hence I leave this suggestion here in the hopes it will be noted and implemented. Thank you for your time."

Fucking. Genius.

This has honestly nothing to do with the Diablo 2 economy.
Restricting selling unperms would just lead to more UaP sales than anything else, as more people would describe their items as legit.
You will just have to take caution with what you buy and from who.

Unperm as perm sellers will continue selling UaP whether it's allowed or not. Honest traders will keep being honest, advertising their unperms for what it is. Imagine unperms become a illegal trade, the UaPs are unaffected, they'll keep on as always. The honest traders however, they lose their ability to be honest about what they're selling and even lose the trade all together. Surely you can see that the consequence here is in a ideal scenario no increase in UaP selling, as every honest trader stops trading unperms all together.. Back to reality then shall we? It's a good thought, but banning unperm trading seem to me like it'll have opposite the effect we're seeking.

Take a second reality check and think before you type more garbage. You're insane if you think your opinion is worth more than any other opinion on the planet simply because you don't put any weight on its value. You know the person you disagree with feels exactly the same about his own and about your opinions? This is a fact, it's true, so tell me why yours is to prefer? You just decided you're right simply because you think other people are wrong, i'm sorry but reality check #3 says it doesn't work like that.

Paul who created and own d2jsp and the Senior Moderator staff have many years of experience on how to manage this site and its rules, (which you btw agreed with registering to d2jsp), when opinions collide and there's disagreement there's only one way to decide whether or either way is right or wrong and that's the staff's job. This is a perfectly functioning dictatorship, no need to fix what isn't broken, unless it's a silencer for voices of epic reason.

If you have any questions you find your answers in this thread. #1.6 is my favorite, in caps and everything. > http://forums.d2jsp.org/info.php?p=55

OP would feel better if Unperm sellers sold their goods as perm instead

Lol.

vouch

I'm referring to the idea that if restricted, selling unperms would become less common as they would be more difficult to get a hold of. That is not, however, what this thread is about. I completely agree with your premise about people being cautious.. problem is some aren't, unfortunately.. would hope this would help them.
economy bit is theirs, not mine.



well said. didn't need to be rude though aye?
your premise is off though, believing that the amount of UaP seen would be unchanged. If made illegal, a large portion of those that UaP would not be able to get their hands on the unperms to begin with.
While I agree that users should check history, ask if they know the person, and go by the rule "if its too good to be true it probably is", there are those who will buy regardless.
Similar to how the government deals with drugs in the country, they go after the suppliers instead of only arresting drug dealers on the street.

I've no need to tell you why my opinion is preferential to me, it's my opinion hence that should be obvious. I never "decided I'm right simply because I think other people are wrong", nor is that how my mind works, and I would appreciate you not putting words into my mouth so to speak on that front. I am merely stating my opinion with facts to back up certain elements of it. It's everyone's right in my world to disagree and present their proof as any good intelligent discussion/debate would entail, without resorting to degrading comments against the other party. The only garbage here are the unperm items being sold freely to uapers in the forums.

I've been in touch with members of the JSP admin, and their reasoning behind closing the issue in the other thread is that it's not a direction they wish to go in at this time. that's not to say that could change, just that they don't want to do it. Historically speaking they've changed things in the past, with the sale of names for example, but what was the catalyst to inspire that change? I'm merely presenting my case and seeing what the community thinks of my idea. Is that not the point of this forum?

lol'd @ your reference to a dictatorship though. I wouldn't say it's that bad but then I haven't been here as long as you have.



nah. that's what I'm trying to prevent.. and because that happens anyway (and would continue to happen anyway, albeit to a far lesser extent) there's really no point in making that argument. It's going to happen either way, but if restricted then jsp would cease enabling uapers to uap.. and maybe we wouldn't see 1 - 2 threads per day about people saying "oh I've been uap'd, I quit"
besides, unperm sellers would need history to sell as perm, which they lack.

This post was edited by Hologram on Mar 18 2014 10:07am

i think a majority of the people are missing the point here.....
so ima try to summarize in simple terms:
1. Uaps will always Uap
2. People need to be cautious when trading (checking histories, people, etc.)
3. this idea is merely an attempt at decreasing the number of Uaps, not eliminate entirely (that would be nice, but implausible)

think about it... how many unperm shops are there? in essence, not that many. if those few suddenly start selling all of their gg jewels, hybrids, etc. after a rule change than its pretty obvious they are uap am i right?
also, how many uaps happen every week? quite a few! where do they get all of these uap items you may ask? well not all of them have the capabilities of duping thats for sure so probably getting them from unperm as unperm sellers (correct me if i am wrong)
an by no means am i blaming those unperm as unperm sellers for this because how are they to know exactly the plans of the buyers?
all hologram is trying to say (in the other thread) is remove an option for supply, hinder uapers ability to do wut they do
this thread is basically trying to bring the idea to light and let the jsp community consider a possible alternative to a problem (no one can deny uaping is a problem unless they uap themselves ofc) NOT put in place a solution without fully considering all possibilities

Seconded