Basically, I would like to bring to light a case regarding guild fee scams.
Basically, having promised a certain benefit in exchange for a "reasonable" guild fee, and not delivering said benefit.
So, here's the case



In my opinion, this should be classified as a lockable offense. Along with demanding for guild entry fees, and kicking the members after with some concocted reasoning.

Do vote and state your stand on this matter.

Regards.

Voted yes

i do not agree hence the problem lies with the system.

Voted no on this, as some people will get in fights via msn/aim/d2/whatever and kick people from their guild that have freshly joined and paid for a custom rank or what not, and they could cry to a med about it posting they got scammed, when in reality they messed it up themselves.


People should really look into a guild, and get to know the Owner and other members and build a friendship before joining said guild, why join a guild of strangers to open yourself up to this sort of thing?

IMO you should give members the responsibility of looking out for things like this, cant have a med babysitting you all day

thats a different situation than what we're presenting
we're talking about this newly joined member paying an entry fee, and having the owner not fulfill his end of the deal and using the fg that does to a custom rang or sig to buy items in the donor forum
but i agree, members do need to take responsibility
but when the owner refuses to do anything to rectify the situation, thats when the meds are needed
im a victim of this, and i've tried to facilitate what i can with the guild leader
but he gets a moderator to kick me out of his guild chat instead

That applies only if the member is new, and could be proven as a fraud by simple s/s of gold logs + any pms/messages related to the dispute (if any) between the guild leader and the member.
Even so, a small refund should be given if the leader were to kick a member out of personal dispute or disagreements imo.

However, what you claimed doesn't apply if the member was part of the guild for 3 whole months, paid the fee, received nothing but a rank that was previously there in the first place, and leaving the guild "on his own accord" due to the fact that the leader failed as a leader.


By continuous actions as stated in the case above, i don't see how it isn't qualified as a scam.
It is also provable by providing gold logs showing the guild fee payment, charter promising of the benefits, and such.
I know this can be solved between the guild leader and the member, but if the guild leader chooses not to refund with a lame excuse such as "you're no longer in the guild, i hold no responsibility", I'd choose to believe it was an intentional scam.

It may be hard on the mediators, but if such actions are left un-noticed or are not dealt with, there would definitely be more such cases.
No one can actually deny entirely that it isn't a scam, since the member was lead to believe that they would receive a certain benefit from the guild, and ends up paying the guild leader, and receiving nothing in return but a dead guild with a leader that can't be bothered with it other than getting more members to pay for the entry fee.

Furthermore, guild fees are never meant to be used for any other purposes other than guild activities and funding for the guild's expenses and such imo.
And if such fees are used to purchase items, or buy rl items in the df, would you deny that it's a scam in disguise? i wouldn't tbh.

This post was edited by Reanolifer on Nov 20 2009 08:13pm

Going to have to say no, too many factors to take into consideration, just like ut topics.

No. If you agree to pay any kind of fee to join a guild, that is at your own risk. Don't join a guild if you don't feel you can trust it's leaders. The guild owner cannot be held liable if he fails to provide any given service that is allegedly offered by the guild. Also, just because a rank slot already exists doesn't mean the guild owner can't charge for it's use. The owner paid for that rank slot in one way or another and can use it as they see fit. It's absurd to suggest making something like that lockable.

Joining a guild is a privilege and is totally at the risk of the person joining. Perhaps the only exception would be paying 250fg specifically for a custom rank and not getting it at all. Even so, the guild owner could take the fg, give you a rank, and then kick you the next day if he wanted to. It is totally, 100%, your own risk with that kind of thing. If there is a repeated problem with a certain person using that to obviously and repeatedly "scam" people, then individual actions could be taken. Other than an extreme case like that, the burden lies on the person joining to make a smart decision with the guild they join.

This post was edited by mwm_zyxcba on Nov 20 2009 08:56pm

I wont vote, because I am too damn lazy to click on a button.

This is not something worth lockable about.. it will cause MORE drama between members and leaders... if a member gets mad, he can lock his leader by saying he was booted?

Wouldnt make sense. Fuck that.