Here are some terms I think might be helpful if you include in a glossary:

cryptocurrency
blockchain
parallel accounting
crowdfunding
fiat
Feedback Loop
transparent
Multisig

#completely avoided my post
ty for wasting an hour of my life for me to review your shit site/idea then not paying out what you said you would

so basically what you're saying in this diagram is people buy a solar energy plant with real money, collectively they will own it but not be able to do anything with it, the energy produced from it is going to be sold to cities for massive amounts of money, then the original investors are going to get minimal returns on the investment via a payment they will most likely not be able to use?
assuming this "solracoin" is going to be like bitcoin which I can't use to pay my cable bill with, I can't use it to purchase my groceries at H.E.B. I can't pay my strippers with bitcoins
but I can use good old fashioned paper notes or metal coin for any of those payments

10% of the value (gross profits) of the energy will be sold and deposited into an account to give the coins a 10% raw reserve value. Excess fiat profits will be split between being distributed to holders of equity over a certain threshold and the other portion of the fiats will be reinvested into new solar arrays which will be distributed to people holding solar deeds within the system proportionately.

Keep in mind most of the gross profit is eaten by maintenance, part replacement, taxes, legal fees ect.

Overall I would only be getting 10% of the value of anything and thats to run and maintain everything and this is if I don't sell any of the equity along the way which is unlikely.-- Think of it like a franchise model; they have similar rates of taking equity

As far as being utilizable by the general population -- It takes time to establish a network effect for anything. In a few countries in Africa cell phone minutes are valued as much as cash is here. Bitcoin is gaining value and utility as more people use it (increased network effect). Initially you couldn't buy anything with it. And its gone from an idea to a 4-6 billion dollar industry in only 5 years.

The key is creating a network effect to provide value.

Will address the other points in the next post.

This post was edited by Blankey on Sep 19 2015 01:26pm

assuming that everyone buys into this solar grid (which won't happen...) then we are all now unemployed because we've all decided that we'd rather get paid by our investments instead of work (why not, right?)
so now we're all riding this train into poverty and have to get jobs again because eventually the value of these things will go down while value of produce and other production items go up (nobody's working, remember)
or:
assuming that only a few people buy into this there's the problem of what companies will support this "solracoin" probably not many places will, bitcoin has been out for a long time and not many places accept bitcoin
nice ouroboros reference lol

your ecosystem-economy-comparison.png is flawed.
for one; what kind of a wolf eats crickets?
2: people can't eat solracoins (or are they edible?)

I don't doubt that there's profit to be made for someone with this solar grid. there's always the possibility that 90 investors buy a grid for $100 total, then the grid produces $1,000 worth of energy per cycle and the investors receive $1 each as a return leaving massive profit for the man behind the mask as they say


-----
assuming that everyone buys into this solar grid (which won't happen...) then we are all now unemployed because we've all decided that we'd rather get paid by our investments instead of work (why not, right?)
so now we're all riding this train into poverty and have to get jobs again because eventually the value of these things will go down while value of produce and other production items go up (nobody's working, remember)
or:
assuming that only a few people buy into this there's the problem of what companies will support this "solracoin" probably not many places will, bitcoin has been out for a long time and not many places accept bitcoin
nice ouroboros reference lol



I get into this in the white paper a bit; but essentially currently we're a Human based society/global economy with machines and automations in it but we're transitioning into a Machine/automated based society/economy with humans in it. Our money is currently fiat which works because humans will do things (provide labor) for the illusion of value because they can be fooled by it and for now it is utilizable. Machines on the other hand don't care how much fiat money you give them because they require energy to execute their programming/tasks. Therefore as the economy transitions money will need to be energy or a direct derivative of energy (machines wont fall for the illusion).

As for the second part I as I stated before (last post) its about establishing a network effect, and the potential for a system to establish one.

I'm glad you liked the ouroboros metaphor; I was hoping someone would get it

your ecosystem-economy-comparison.png is flawed.
for one; what kind of a wolf eats crickets?
2: people can't eat solracoins (or are they edible?)


This analogy is merely to show a previous economic system which has arisen naturally and try to model it with technology and systems available to us. Some of the best human designs come from copying natural systems (Think B2 stealth bomber modeled after a falcon dive-bombing for prey).

The sun provides energy which plants (natural solar panels) turn into utilizable energy (calories) which are then exchanged between animals in that economy (ecosystem). Also as far as the wolf--> cricket thing goes Have you ever seen a dog eat a bug or random shit? They do eat crickets if the need/opportunity arises.

If we go by the energy economics money as energy theory and model the economic system (human ecological system) after the natural ecological system we get Solar panels --> Create usable energy (electricity) --> Traded between animals (humans) in that ecosystem (economy).


I don't doubt that there's profit to be made for someone with this solar grid. there's always the possibility that 90 investors buy a grid for $100 total, then the grid produces $1,000 worth of energy per cycle and the investors receive $1 each as a return leaving massive profit for the man behind the mask as they say

Profit will be based proportional to equity. In a franchise-like model I would be entitled to 10% of the equity and profits. 90% would be in the hands of the investors based on their proportional equity. They just need to invest and recieve returns. I would be providing the infrastructure and maintaining the non automatable systems, dealing with legal issues, replacing things that break, paying employees ect.

There are even more similar models in terms of profit sharing in things like crowdfunded/group based bitcoin mining companies where the host/company takes a share for running the system.

Additionally everything will be near if not 100% transparent and auditable and incorruptable on a blockchain

"Considering that the $USD (Federal Reserve notes)"
$ is USD
much like ¥ is Yen
you don't see ¥Yen
this should probably say "considering that the USD (Federal Reserve notes)"

I agree that there will always be more money owed than what exists if we use the current system.
I like to think that some day we will move above petty things such as money though.
I've always been a person that prefers to do things on a "I do this for you, you do that for me" basis. Which I think the world would be a much better place if more people would think this way


Perhaps you are right with the $USD aspect; ill consider changing it. I'm not sure what most people resonate/understand the USD as in terms of a symbol. $, USD, or Federal Reserve Note. I tried to hit all of them by doing it that way.


I agree that there will always be more money owed than what exists if we use the current system.

So you understand that everyone by nature will default over time if you run the system long enough (with all real assets falling into the hands of the issuer of debt).

I like to think that some day we will move above petty things such as money though.

Thats the idea - and this is what I envision as a way to potentially do that or at least move in the direction to evolve that way.

I've always been a person that prefers to do things on a "I do this for you, you do that for me" basis. Which I think the world would be a much better place if more people would think this way

There are a few systems like this setup where you're give/takes are tracked and the closer to neutral you are the better off you are. (IE: you wouldn't be likely to help someone that has a huge negative deficit).

I agree with you that it is a more 'fair' system but it also loses liquidity. It works well with services; but not so well with tangible goods.

Overall I like your idea of this solar grid, but the whole "take one currency and turn it into another" idea is dumb.. really dumb. bitcoin already has a head start on virtual currency to begin with, these virtual currencies are based off of notes that are supposed to have gold value but no longer do.
quote from the US Treasury:
“Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. Redeemable notes into gold ended in 1933 and silver in 1968. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are “backed” by all the goods and services in the economy.”

This system of invest and live off the investment would not work, the world needs workers to produce food, create new inventions (otherwise how will we make it to the moon?), troubleshoot existing issues and issues that haven't come to view yet, etc

If the end goal of this was to simply drain the investors and give out minimal returns, why not just use USD for this purpose? or YEN or GBP or even BTC for that matter
I don't see the need to create an entirely new currency over this

---
Overall I like your idea of this solar grid, but the whole "take one currency and turn it into another" idea is dumb.. really dumb. bitcoin already has a head start on virtual currency to begin with, these virtual currencies are based off of notes that are supposed to have gold value but no longer do.

I agree but I'm not trying to create another fiat currency. I'm trying to create a currency/protocol/system that is generative, transparent, has potential abundance, and can be implemented by anyone. I also want the currency to be backed by real value (energy) as based on my theory as energy as money (energy evonomics) I think it's the only suitable energy source that will provide long term, safe, sustainable results. If I was just trying to create another fiat currency I'd just start printing Blankey bux.
As far as transparency goes -- We (the gov't) can't even audit the fed.... And they can legally create money with the press of a button.. As far as bitcoin goes -- it still has a big flaw that fiat money has and that is that it isn't derived from anything of tangible value. It has value because it is trust-less, near incorruptible, and transparent. My system has those as qualities but is also derived/backed by something of great value.. Energy

This system of invest and live off the investment would not work, the world needs workers to produce food, create new inventions (otherwise how will we make it to the moon?), troubleshoot existing issues and issues that haven't come to view yet, etc

It doesn't remove people from the system -- they would still need to work. It just helps better position the globe for a transition into a more technologically oriented society where a large amount of the redundancy in jobs will be taken over by machines to some degree.

Also a system this would provide people with more time to think as they would have to spend less time working (I'm not saying thats what they'd do with their time - but people working mc.jobs don't have the time/energy to think after their shifts). People would still have to work for panels to provide enough energy to cover their footprint comfortable. Any work beyond that would be up them. As far as agriculture goes 65 years ago we had ~ 30% of the population employed in agriculture. Today with automation and machinery that is less than 3% Whats to say those gps guided tractors can't be powered by electric and continue to be automated. (and HUMANS lost all of those jobs to MACHINES). As humans become displaced in the work force our old economic system/structure and dynamics wont work. There simply wont be enough jobs as automation replaces them. Thus we need a new economic system to change as this occurs. Again machines won't run on fiat money to run (unless you burn it for thermal energy); they require energy.

I realize I probably didn't hit all of your issues perfectly/entirely but when we get into micro and macro-dynamics involving the society, economy, monetary dynamics, and new theory -- its hard to answer anything with enough substance in a few paragraphs.


I welcome any more questions; and if you're interested I can send you the white paper which goes into more detail about some of the things you asked.


Sent 33 fg for the questions/input. ty

This post was edited by Blankey on Sep 19 2015 02:09pm

Bump

What about the inflation of the coins? How do you limit this when energy isn't limited?

Also, I don't see how anyone would even buy into this if their coins are to be only backed by 10% of the KWH profit? 90% of real money goes into the organizer's pocket?
----------


"10% of the value (gross profits) of the energy will be sold and deposited into an account to give the coins a 10% raw reserve value. Excess fiat profits will be split between being distributed to holders of equity over a certain threshold and the other portion of the fiats will be reinvested into new solar arrays which will be distributed to people holding solar deeds within the system proportionately.

Keep in mind most of the gross profit is eaten by maintenance, part replacement, taxes, legal fees ect."


You plan to pay for the solar plant straight out or in monthly payments? Depending on how many years it's going to take, there is no gross profit. <-this is vital
This whole system depends on fiat money, the irony.
This would never take off in the USA, there might be a chance in select places in Africa

This post was edited by saber_x3 on Sep 20 2015 01:22pm

What about the inflation of the coins? How do you limit this when energy isn't limited?
The idea would be to set an 'oxidation/decay rate' on the coins as to reduce incentivation of hoarding and to keep the coin accumulation rates in line with production rates so that the coins are more closely tied with the value and utility of that energy.

Also, I don't see how anyone would even buy into this if their coins are to be only backed by 10% of the KWH profit? 90% of real money goes into the organizer's pocket?

Based on profitability of solar arrays it breaks down somewhat like this: 100% Gross profit --> 10% goes to reserve account to back coins -- ~ 70% goes to taxes, maintenance, employees, energy running computers backing the blockchain, legal fees ect -- ~ 10% Profit is left over most of which would be recycled into a pooled fund to fund new blocks of solar arrays whos equity would be distributed to those within the system. Less than ~5% of the overall gross profit would make it to the corporation.

You plan to pay for the solar plant straight out or in monthly payments? Depending on how many years it's going to take, there is no gross profit. <-this is vital
This whole system depends on fiat money, the irony.
This would never take off in the USA, there might be a chance in select places in Africa

Yes; the arrays will be funded in blocks (1 MW at a time) via crowdfunding. People putting money in will get proportional equity in that block and generate Solracoins proportionally.

As far as depending on fiat; yes for now it does. It is how our reality works currently (How else would you fund such a thing...). Unless I somehow funded enough arrays and developed a solar breeder functioning at a net positive ERoEI (energy returned on energy invested) fiat is necessary. Or until energy as a form of money overtakes the network effect of money being used in trade fiat will be necessary.


This concept could be introduced anywhere in nations, territories, town,cities of any size; but you're right there may be little demand in the US because everyone is so comfortable with fiat (except those paying attention to what the fed is doing which is a minority).

Its about creating equitable money and a potential for a global reserve currency with actual utilizable value and bracing for a societal shift orienting towards technological saturation.

It also about the other ~4 billion people with little financial/monetary/banking infrastructure and nearly no energy infrastructure.

This post was edited by Blankey on Sep 20 2015 03:14pm